User Tag List

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 LastLast
Results 52 to 68 of 203
  1. #52
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    came from the SAR
    Posts
    3,786
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    That decision actually rests with CBA, not BWF. Every national association pick their best medal prospects at the time. It doesn't mean those players will definitely win. Easy to say after the event has happened. LD was hot favourite in 2004. Whether the national association gets it right in choosing the players is another debate.

    LXR may still have been chosen by CBA. How do you she wouldn't have been...? Only CBA can decide.
    I think WX had a better chance of being chosen than LXR because (i) WX had better head to head record against foreign players, (ii) WX had more experience, (iii) WX was ranked higher, and (iv) WX, ZN and LYB are all from the same province.

    But that's not the point. The point is "why would denying the third best player in the world a place at the Olympics be good for our sport"?

    The denial is done by BWF, not by CBA.


  2. #53
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    24
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vixter View Post
    It's not discrimination. If a world no. 3 is not eligible, it's because no.1 and no.2 is from the same country. Tough luck! If you want to participate as badminton player in Olympics, you better make sure you are top 2 in your country. If the competition in your own country is simply too strong, there is always the choice of representing another nation. Just look at Yao Jie, Pi Hongyan and Xu Huaiwen.
    Of course this is discrimination. This is really the definition. Olympia should be independently of the nationality as the reanimator Pierre de Coubertin wanted it.

    What kind of event is that where you are world number 3 or 4 and cant compete because of your nationality? In particular because of this many people changed their nationality just to compete in Olympia. This makes no sense.

    It would still make more sense to give seeds to nations which a big population.

    Olympia is an INDIVIDUAL tournament as in the ancient and should be independently of the nationality.

  3. #54
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Outside the box
    Posts
    13,189
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    I think WX had a better chance of being chosen than LXR because (i) WX had better head to head record against foreign players, (ii) WX had more experience, (iii) WX was ranked higher, and (iv) WX, ZN and LYB are all from the same province.
    So you are 100% sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by phalanx View Post
    Of course this is discrimination. This is really the definition. Olympia should be independently of the nationality as the reanimator Pierre de Coubertin wanted it.
    You have a reference for that? But I did find a few interesting quotes attributed to Pierre de Coubertin from this site.

    "All sports must be treated on the basis of equality." - something I agree.

    "May joy and good fellowship reign, and in this manner, may the Olympic Torch pursue its way through ages, increasing friendly understanding among nations, for the good of a humanity always more enthusiastic, more courageous and more pure." - Pierre advocates nations.

    "The Olympic Games are for the world and all nations must be admitted to them." - Nations again, not individuals.


    Quote Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

    What kind of event is that where you are world number 3 or 4 and cant compete because of your nationality? In particular because of this many people changed their nationality just to compete in Olympia. This makes no sense.

    It would still make more sense to give seeds to nations which a big population.

    Olympia is an INDIVIDUAL tournament as in the ancient and should be independently of the nationality.
    Olympic judo. As I wrote before, only 1 for each NOC in each event.

    And sure. Changing nationalities is not confined to badminton alone - it happens for other sports.

  4. #55
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    Really? So that means you disagree with continental representation. I saw a South African pair play on TV. So they lost their match. It still gets publicised in their country. Canadians got a crack at getting a badminton medal. That's the chance you get. You can still get the best two in a country if they are good enough.
    First of all, other countries/continents ARE represented at the Olympics. Secondly, it's not the IOC that is limiting the entries. It's the BWF that's limiting the entries while as I mentioned, violating the Olympic motto, so let's not pretend that the IOC is circumventing its own rules. In additional, why should I have to justify the contradicting values of the Olympics (Citius, Altius, Fortius) vs. participation?

    Third, Canada had a crack at women's doubles in London. Did badminton take off after that? I must have missed all those Canadians showing up badminton gyms.

    Lastly but most importantly, to claim continental participation would go up because what is in effect, an attempt to limit Chinese entries, is an outright lie. Those slots vacated by non-attending Chinese players is gonna go to a South African/Canada/Brazilian/whatever you claimed. It will go to a lower ranked Malaysian, Indonesian, South Korean and Dane, as in, countries already relatively strong on badminton.

    FYI, You are actually wrong . Lin Dan has also lost in the first round of a previous Olympics (iirc he was no.1 in the world then losing to a Singapore player). So the best players in the world may not necessarily get to the finals. Kim Dong Moon and Ra Kyu Min were the most dominant mixed doubles pair for two years running up to an Olympics and they lost I think in 2nd round quite unexpectedly to a Danish pair.
    You are referring to the 2004 Olympics. With all due respect to Lin Dan, in 2004 he was an inconsistent 20 year old player just out of juniors who quite frankly wasn't very good. Make no mistakes, the potential was there, but he wasn't named "First Round Dan" for nothing. As a matter of fact, he would remain inconsistent for another year or two until he learnt and, in my opinion, is the better player for it.

    Neither is Ronald Susilo nobody. He qualified for the Olympics on his own merit. As a matter of fact, he was the flag bearer for Singapore.
    Last edited by mindreader; 02-24-2014 at 11:20 AM.

  5. #56
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    So you are 100% sure?



    You have a reference for that? But I did find a few interesting quotes attributed to Pierre de Coubertin from this site.

    "All sports must be treated on the basis of equality." - something I agree.

    "May joy and good fellowship reign, and in this manner, may the Olympic Torch pursue its way through ages, increasing friendly understanding among nations, for the good of a humanity always more enthusiastic, more courageous and more pure." - Pierre advocates nations.

    "The Olympic Games are for the world and all nations must be admitted to them." - Nations again, not individuals.

    Olympic judo. As I wrote before, only 1 for each NOC in each event.

    And sure. Changing nationalities is not confined to badminton alone - it happens for other sports.

    Once again, all nations/continents ARE eligible for the Olympics. They all participate in the qualifiers and there is ZERO rule that preclude them from doing so.

  6. #57
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    24
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    So you are 100% sure?
    You have a reference for that?
    Sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination#Nationality
    The rules of Olympia are allowing the following case: In your sport you are in the top 3 but are not allowed to compete ONLY because of your nationality. And discrimination by nationality is often related to discrimination by race.

    But I did find a few interesting quotes attributed to Pierre de Coubertin from this site.
    Ok, but let me give you the following from the same site:

    "Racial distinctions should not play a role in sport." What whould be the case above.

    You are agreeing on
    "The Olympic Games are for the world and all nations must be admitted to them." - Nations again, not individuals.
    I think you intepreted this not correctly. All nations should included to it an so all individuals also the ones from countries with "strange" leaders or from poor countries.

    "All sports must be treated on the basis of equality." - something I agree.
    Ok, so make qualifications but do not set limit by nationality.

    "May joy and good fellowship reign, and in this manner, may the Olympic Torch pursue its way through ages, increasing friendly understanding among nations, for the good of a humanity always more enthusiastic, more courageous and more pure." - Pierre advocates nations.
    Yeah, you want a friendly understanding among nations. And this does not mean, that you need a medal ranking (this in particular never official, it is just made by media) or national athems.
    In particular in team sport also international teams should be allowed. This would also increase the friendly understanding among nations like the international football teams.

    And sure. Changing nationalities is not confined to badminton alone - it happens for other sports.
    Yeah which is really poor.


    How nice would it be if we would see international double or mixed teams at tournaments? At the moment this is of course not possible due to lack of professionlism, maybe only in this Indian league, but not at superseries cup and so on.

  7. #58
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    292
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The word discrimination is not applicable here at all, in my opinion. All nations are playing under the same rules. If a certain country was not allowed participation at all, or allowed less spots than other countries, now that would be discrimination.

    International double or mixed teams is allowed and existing, although not common I think for more practical reasons (training-opportunities). Nedelcheva[BUL] plays WD with Bankier[SCO]. Anastasia Russkikh[RUS] played WD with Nedelcheva and XD with Setiawan[INA].

  8. #59
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    came from the SAR
    Posts
    3,786
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think this is necessarily discrimination. But it sure is tyranny of the majority. BWF is trying to contain China.

    Countless talents in WS and WD within China have been and continue to be wasted. Sad.

  9. #60
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Malaysia BOLEH...!!!
    Posts
    4,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If LD does qualify but behind CL, DPY and WZM, is CBA going to pave way for LD by taking out DPY and WZM?

  10. #61
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,972
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phalanx View Post
    Sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination#Nationality
    The rules of Olympia are allowing the following case: In your sport you are in the top 3 but are not allowed to compete ONLY because of your nationality. And discrimination by nationality is often related to discrimination by race.
    In what way?? Nobody ever try to discriminate by race. If that happens so, then it would be for all the asians not for a particular country alone. Badminton is for all the nations not for a particular country.

    If you have more than 3 players in top 8 and you are not allowed to play , then your country need to decide how to proceed further. They can create more local tournaments for these players which according to some of the members here is more competitive than superseries tournaments.

    No discrimination, No neglection and No partiallity. They have taken right steps to broaden the area which was very narrow till now.

    BWF still need to address various issues regarding walkovers which are very much necessary to badminton.

  11. #62
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    359
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
    In what way?? Nobody ever try to discriminate by race. If that happens so, then it would be for all the asians not for a particular country alone. Badminton is for all the nations not for a particular country.
    Are you seriously implying that all Asians are of the same race? You are kidding, right?

  12. #63
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,972
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yamsyams View Post
    Are you seriously implying that all Asians are of the same race? You are kidding, right?
    You are missing my point.. Asia is still the best in badminton than any other continents at present. Hence i said like that. But still BWF don't not have any intention to separate or discriminate a particular country. They are trying to increase the growth of badminton by imposing rules of this kind (trying to control the domination of a particular country , so that popularity of this sport goes beyond a particular limit).
    Last edited by scorpion1; 02-25-2014 at 12:06 PM.

  13. #64
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    359
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
    You are missing my point.. Asia is still the best in badminton than any other continents at present. Hence i said like that. But still BWF don't not have any intention to separate or discriminate a particular country. They are trying to increase the growth of badminton by imposing rules of this kind (trying to control the domination of a particular country , so that popularity of this sport goes beyond a particular limit).
    So you say that BWF is controlling the domination of a particular country, but this isn't discrimination? Well it may not be discrimination in the technical definition of the word, but the intent is definitely there. And like mentioned before, if the BWF really wanted to use this rule to promote the growth of the sport in other countries, why not change the rule to 2 athletes only when both are in the top 8 instead of the top 16 like it is now? That frees up a whole host of places rather than just 1 from each discipline under the current rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by vixter View Post
    It's not discrimination. If a world no. 3 is not eligible, it's because no.1 and no.2 is from the same country. Tough luck! If you want to participate as badminton player in Olympics, you better make sure you are top 2 in your country.
    How about flipping this? The top 30-40+(the exact numbers seem to vary a bit) ranked players all participate, and 1 continental wildcard is given in each discipline. If you're not eligible, that's because you're not the top XXth or you're not the top in your continent. Tough luck! If you want to play, you better make sure you are!

  14. #65
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    came from the SAR
    Posts
    3,786
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
    You are missing my point.. Asia is still the best in badminton than any other continents at present. Hence i said like that. But still BWF don't not have any intention to separate or discriminate a particular country. They are trying to increase the growth of badminton by imposing rules of this kind (trying to control the domination of a particular country , so that popularity of this sport goes beyond a particular limit).
    For the 2012 London Olympics, BWF limited 2 pairs per nations. Did that make badminton grow?

  15. #66
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
    In what way?? Nobody ever try to discriminate by race. If that happens so, then it would be for all the asians not for a particular country alone. Badminton is for all the nations not for a particular country.

    If you have more than 3 players in top 8 and you are not allowed to play , then your country need to decide how to proceed further. They can create more local tournaments for these players which according to some of the members here is more competitive than superseries tournaments.

    No discrimination, No neglection and No partiallity. They have taken right steps to broaden the area which was very narrow till now.

    BWF still need to address various issues regarding walkovers which are very much necessary to badminton.
    This has to be without doubt, one of the most asinine posts I've ever seen. If a country has more than 3 in the top 8 and won't be allowed to participate in tournaments. Why would those outside the top 3 PARTICIPATE IN THE SPORT? Unless you're number 4 or 5 where it's at least within reach, you have no hopes of earning money/glory/what have you by participating international tournaments, by the time you're just over 20 (if you're in China), you'd quite the sport.

    How does this improve the sport? It sure as hell doesn't make other countries better. It just weakens the dominant nation and by extension, the sport.

  16. #67
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here's a good examples of the debacle created by allowing non-qualified nations to participate. Comes just at the right time too:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...iers?hpt=hp_t3

  17. #68
    Regular Member AlanY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,438
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There are always winners and losers for all these changes for qualification, but unfortunately the losers are those who’re too good and the winners are those just c**p!

    Using today’s ranking lists as an example, not just China will suffer.
    Top 32 singles will be denied of their places are;
    Code:
    MS
    Rank Country Player
    9 China WANG Zhengming
    17 Japan Takuma UEDA
    19 Indonesia Dionysius Hayom RUMBAKA
    21 India K. Srikanth
    22 India Ajay JAYARAM
    23 Japan Sho SASAKI
    25 Denmark Hans-Kristian VITTINGHUS
    26 Denmark Viktor Axelsen
    27 China SONG Xue
    28 China Yuekun CHEN
    29 India R. M. V. Gurusaidutt
    30 Chinese Taipei HSU Jen Hao
    32 Hong Kong WONG Wing Ki
    Code:
    WS
    4 China WANG Shixian
    12 Thailand Nichaon JINDAPON
    16 Japan Minatsu MITANI
    17 Thailand Busanan ONGBUMRUNGPAN
    19 China HAN Li
    23 Thailand Sapsiree TAERATTANACHAI
    25 Indonesia Belaetrix MANUPUTI
    26 Spain Beatriz CORRALES
    27 China YAO Xue
    28 Japan Yui HASHIMOTO
    29 Indonesia Aprilia YUSWANDARI
    30 Chinese Taipei PAI Hsiao Ma
    31 Indonesia Hera DESI
    32 Hong Kong CHAN Tsz Ka
    Top 16 pairs will be denied of their places are;
    Code:
    MD Country Player1 Player2
    9 Indonesia Angga PRATAMA Ryan Agung SAPUTRA
    12 Korea LEE Yong Dae YOO Yeon Seong
    14 Malaysia Khim Wah LIM V Shem GOH
    15 Japan Takeshi KAMURA Keigo SONODA
    16 China CHAI Biao HONG Wei
    WD
    5 China BAO Yixin TANG Jinhua
    9 Japan Reika KAKIIWA Miyuki MAEDA
    10 Indonesia Nitya Krishinda MAHESWARI Greysia POLII
    12 China TIAN Qing ZHAO Yunlei
    13 Korea KO A Ra YOO Hae Won
    14 Indonesia Aprilsasi Putri LEJARSAR VARIELLA Vita MARISSA
    XD
    10 Indonesia Praveen JORDAN Vita MARISSA
    11 Korea KO Sung Hyun KIM Ha Na
    13 Indonesia Muhammad RIJAL Debby SUSANTO
    15 Indonesia Riky WIDIANTO Puspita Richi DILI
    16 England Chris LANGRIDGE Heather OLVER
    and are you still think it's good for badminton?

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •