IBF- Listen To Us

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Loh, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Most of us are die-hard fans of badminton and that's one reason why we are engaged for so long in this Forum. There were a number of posts in the past on our grievances about the poor state of badminton today, the lack of TV and other media coverage on the sport, especially in the West, and what our wish-list for badminton is like.

    Why not we, through BF and kwun, present our views to the IBF Council to let them know how interested and involved we are to ensure that badminton maintains a high profile and how it can be further improved internationally.

    I think we can think of two broad groups of viewpoints:

    1) Current Weaknesses/Deficiencies/Shortcomings
    2) Suggestions for improvement/Wish List.

    Why don't as many BFers express their feelings here under the above categories and then kwun can collate the results and write officially to the IBF. We want to tell them that we are serious in wanting to see the world body move forward to promote badminton to the highest level possible.

    Will you please contribute by writing a line or two? Please try.
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Loh, i will help out as much as i can. here are some inputs.

    i think IBF will want to hear more on point 2) than 1). i think they are fully aware of the lack of popularity of badminton. that's why they came up with the various ways to "improve" badminton, including the ill-fated 5x7 experiment. but there are many good things that i see came out of it. i like the tournament organization and presentation better. with the colored carpet, the dimmed light. i also like players' name on jersey. these aren't very big changes and do not change the fundamental quality of the game, but give a better presentation and impression for non-badminton viewers.

    however, such is not enough, there gotta be other things that IBF can do. i will put on my thinking cap and think hard about it. i think everybody else should as well because we are part of one big community and family, the family of badminton fans.

    one thing that i want to point out is that our help to IBF would be unique. we have ppl from all over the world, from all persective of badminton. i believe our diverse views and suggestions will be valuable to IBF and hopefully badminton will benefit as a whole.
     
  3. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    kwun

    I'm happy that you are in broad agreement and felt the same that we need to do something, especially that our views are from a varied spectrum of worldwide badminton fans.

    I also agree that the IBF will be interested to hear our views on how we can help them improve (Cat 2). Therefore the views on Category 1 on Weaknesses can help us identify them and give us ideas as to how to overcome them and come up with solutions.

    Our final letter to the IBF should only contain recommendations/suggestions for improvement.
     
  4. Wizbit

    Wizbit Regular Member

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    Get Tom Cruise to make a movie about badminton...
     
  5. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    is there a time frame to collect and compose this letter to IBF?
     
  6. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Good question, Cooler.

    I was thinking about two weeks to collect and one week to compose. This is so as not to lose momentum and BFers have to seriously allocate some time to thinking about the subject and posting their ideas without further delay.

    I can help in drafting the final letter, if needed.
     
  7. Wizbit

    Wizbit Regular Member

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    Badminton popularity

    Joking aside..

    Actually much effort has been wasted before, badminton is considered a minority sport in the Western society. It has also been deemed unsuitable for television.

    IBF have already experimented with changing the scoring system, to make it more "exciting" to watch. We all know how that ended up.

    Some European satellite channels have recently started to show a little. I believe Jonas Rasmussen did some commentary for it. This is in part because there are so many digital television channels out there now, and only so much programmes to fill it up, hence why badminton gets a rare opportunity to show it's stuff. I'm sure if there is a demand then there will be a supply.

    It's not terribly hard to put badminton on TV. IBF could throw all of their resources into it, they could buy and broadcast their own satellite channel, but the question is who would watch it?

    Apart from fanatics, and the odd bored couch potatoe that is.

    The question I want answered is why do people not like watching badminton on TV?

    I used to think badminton was non existing or invisible in the newspapers. But I find that I just have to look very hard. You know....the small hastily written, unformatted and often unoticed stories hidden somewhere between the pages you don't read, like the adverts and the horse racing?

    Loh - what is it that you want to do? (i) make badminton more popular (ii) have more badminton coverage on TV and in media?

    If we want to make it more popular, then we have to look at the whole package of everything in the game, including the players and remarket them, at the risk of changing the game as we know it.

    As far (ii), soon, we will have access to ultra high bandwidth, which would enable on-demand streaming and live videos from the Internet.... and at a fraction of the cost of TV broadcasting. But I couldn't see IBF releasing their entire back catalogue of videos...

    If you look back 10 or more years ago, the situation has improved a lot, mainly because of the take up of the Internet. In that period, if you wanted to check the results of the Japan Open in UK, how would/could you have done it?

    The game seems to be quite healthy at the moment, with decent audience attendances at major tournaments, up and rising stars, constant (minor) improvements in equipment technology, good coverage in Asia and even badminton celebrities. Surely you'd be greedy to want more?

    (Off Topic)
    Sometimes you have to accept that some things are meant to be, whilst others aren't. Look at the Hong Kong comedian actor Stephen Chow, Chow Sing Chi. He is the most talented comedic actor I have ever seen, any Chinese person can tell you that he is a big celebrity throughout Asia and is cult status around the world. However, why can he not break into the Hollywood and the US market. His last film, Shaolin Soccer was made with a western audience in mind, capitalising on the western fixation on soccer/football. It was a flop in the states... Now compare with Bruce Lee...and to a lesser extent Jacky Chan. The Kung Fu films have always done better than the comedy films, like Tennis is to Badminton.

    If you are not one to give into fate, then there is always perseverance and wishful thinking :p
     
  8. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Great stuff, Wizbit,

    You have identified some shortcomings. Assuming you are not too happy with the state of badminton as both a player and spectator, in which areas would you like to see improvement? Practical solutions which you think the IBF can adopt will obviously carry more weight.
     
  9. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    If possible:

    1. To have IBF to set up scholarship(s) for high school and college students in order to attract more young people to participate badminton. Nowaday, Young people tend to like soccer, football, basketball, and hockey the most because sometimes you see they can make some when entering college or when they are young. So, I think finding out some ways to get some young people is really important.

    2. To Have badminton stars to perform some Badminton Demostration/Shows around the world in major cities. So, there will be more people understanding that badminton isn't all about plastic birds, $5 rackets pair, and backyard sport. These events can be considered as a medium size parties, with free admissions will be even better.

    Jeff
     
  10. Traum

    Traum Regular Member

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    Re: Badminton popularity

    The biggest hurdle that baddy has to overcome is America's infatuation with power and brawn. NBA, NFL, and NHL are all blatant examples of this. Speed, agility, technique, finesse, and altheletism are only secondary elements that adds to the appeal of the sport. At the end of the day, it is the physical rawness that continues to attract the general public day after day.

    As fast and exciting as badminton is, the sport is just too gentlemanly for spectators. Even if that 300km/h smash hits the opposing player, very little damage (if any) would be inflicted. The shuttle is too light and decelerates far too quickly to make it potentially harmful.

    Compare badminton to our closest popular cousin, tennis, the power and brawn in our sport is just pitiful. The sport just doesn't have enough edge to attract the average power-hungry viewer.

    IMO, Stephen Chow's flop in America is partially due to the contract / distribution rights entanglements he had with Miramax. Although Stephen Chow made a deal with Miramax to release Shaolin Soccer here in America, he made the mistake of signing his future deals with another studio (forgot which one). Essentially, had Miramax gone ahead with the promotion and release of Shaolin Soccer, they would only be stuck with the task (and the bill) of promoting a top Asian star in America. But since Stephen had already signed his future deals with another studio, there would be no financial benefit to Miramax in making Stephen Chow popular. As a result, they cancelled the theatrical release, and just came up with a wimpy DVD/VHS release instead.

    -Rick
     
  11. nypockus

    nypockus Regular Member

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    I think the IBF needs to consider advertising more in non traditional badminton countries such as the US, Europe, Australia etc and by the way Africa isn't the ideal continent to expand the game from. The IBF should treat the sport of badminton more as a commodity, or product and a fully fledged business. Advertising is crucial to promote not only the sport but also to change the perception of the game ie it's not a wussy sport but one that requires speed, agility and power. The IBF may have long term strategic goals but needs to implement short term goals. They need to be able to promote a product which will attractive to sponsors and then it will be shown on tv. For example, tennis used to be an amateur sport 30 or 40 years ago and kind of professional in a way but not quite there. Look at it now, it's so big.

    Kids in Australia don't play badminton because

    1) they have misconception that badminton is easy and wussy
    2) there is absolutely no advertising in any capacity to promote the game at all
    3) the sport is competing with other sports eg tennis, even lawnbowls (btw there is about 500 000 registered lawnbowlers in Australia alone and that's why their funding is bigger and badminton is stacks more interesting. certainly this puts badminton to shame as we only have 5500 registered players.
    4) you can't have a career in badminton because all your effort is for nothing. no scholarships, no career path. the game is only played for fun. you get paid to play in tennis even if you're not a Hewitt or an Agassi
    5) the mentality of the board here is that badminton should only focus on the players currently and try to milk the current players of as much as they can suck from t rather than trying to expand to the next generation of young players.

    I think if the IBF gets their act together and aggressively pursues the sport in a business like manner then badminton will improve. Funding is an issue but you have to work with your constraints and work smarter with the funding. If they can persuade kids to play it rather than other sports then badminton will have a better future.

    Another consideration is the fact that a badminton match can be as quick as 10minutes. you won't show that on tv because it's hopeless. maybe there needs to be some extra changes to the game to extend the match eg perhaps each player can have 3 x 1 minute timeouts per set which they can use or make it best of 5 sets first to 11 or change the setting to make it first to 5 and at 4 all, you have to win by 2 points. Something needs to be done. Even crap tennis players play for at least an 40minutes before they lose. The rules need to be tweaked.

    Also the IBF should perhaps look at other sports and how they have changed for tv eg NFL (although this is a team game but the same concepts do apply when you look at badminton as a business). In NFL they use digital cameras so that they can stop the play and rotate the angle 360 degrees. This would be fabulous for badminton but it is expensive. However, you have to look at the little things that would add value to sponsors and television broadcast.

    Another point is that some of the rules in badminton is antiquated or not defined well enough. I remember watching the 2001 Thomas cup match. i think it was one of the doubles and one of guys put a fist up at the opposition and shouted in exhilaration after completing a successful match. Guess what happened to him? he got warned by the umpire. That is way out of date. Look at tennis and how far that has progressed. the players in tennis spit dummies all the time and not all are given warnings. another one is the time wasting rule which the umpire is given discretion to use. The rule should be defined further so that you should be given 30 seconds to serve a shuttle or whatever the time may be.

    Last but not least, the IBF should use of its trump cards when trying to promote badminton. Everyone of all ages and sizes can play. Not many active sports can promote this. Even as a professional you don't need to be 6 foot to play. this can't be said for tennis because the bigger you are the more powerful you become and power is useful in tennis. In badminton, power isn't everything if you can't recover from a smash for example.

    i've got one last suggestion. Maybe it's time for the IBF to use consultants to help them out. Eg KPMG or PwC to do a report for them on how to bring badminton to the next level. If they want to bring it to the next level, then they can't just stay focussed on asia and denmark, you need big sponsors like Nike, adidas, car companies on their side. If they just hope that asia and denmark is enough, then the board should get sacked immediately. Advertising is one of the keys to badminton's success forward or if nothing is done badminton will go backwards and other sports will go forwards, that's one of the facts of life.
     
  12. naikong

    naikong Regular Member

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    well, may be, Thai situation's different from yours.We have new court every 2 months...er... in Bangkok.

    we, my friends and I, love to go around and play in the new one.
     
  13. Dzgdz

    Dzgdz Regular Member

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    Here is my input:

    1. What about canceling the setting to 17 or 13 points?

    In my opinion it is useless rule, based on my observation in the 95% of cases games are set and this makes imho the game less attractive, because after the comeback the player is not granted with the possibility of winning the game. Instead of the exiting game/match point we have the momentum of relax. This is not something that attracts audience and also makes the rules complicated.
    The second complicated and difficult rule to follow is order of serving in doubles. But even if I find this complicated and difficult to understand, I can hardly propose any solution here…

    Anyway, I think the rules should be as simple as possible. It is good that rules concerning setting at 13 and 9 points were removed some time ago. I remember also a very stupid rule that in the moment of setting the score was changed to 0-0 and this was making people watching the match dizzy whether the game is finally finished or not.

    2. Scholarships and promotion tournaments
    I like the point with scholarships and promotion tournaments. Maybe it could be an agreement between IBF and scholarship holder that in exchange of IBF’ support the player would be obliged to participate in the certain number of promotion tournaments around the world.

    3. Exchange of knowledge
    I would be also happy to see camps (e.g. in the summer) for the players from different countries (especially from the countries where the badminton is under development). Local associations would be obliged to cover the expenses for the players (travel, hotel, meals), whereas the IBF should secure excellent coaches and sparing partners (e.g. retired top players).

    What do you think about this?

    regards,
    dzgdz
     
  14. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Cancel Deuce in Badminton Scoring

    Hi kwun,

    In light of what Dzgdz has suggested about cancelling 17 and 13 points for men and women respectively, ie, NO deuce. Whoever reaches 15 or 11 points first shall win the game.

    Some reasons for cancelling:

    1. Avoids confusion, especially to the spectator who may not be too familiar with the game. Less confusion may generate greater interest in the game both as spectator and as player.

    2. Avoids delays, time is shorten with less points played and players trying to waste time during deuce are prevented from doing so. We have seen how tournaments have been delayed and played till the wee hours of the next morning at both officials' and players' expense.

    3. Players have to remain more focused on the game and not rely on extra deuce points. Every point becomes more important than before.

    4. Maybe enhance viewing of the game on TV and allow commercials to have a longer exposure time. More sponsors may be attracted to support the game.

    Someone may be able to think of more valid points.

    As such you may wish to conduct a POLL to assess the popularity or otherwise of doing away with deuce.
     
  15. jump_smash

    jump_smash Regular Member

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    Badminton on TV in Australia

    I have already written to SBS (Mutilcultural TV network - they show apart from foreign films etc - a lot of soccer - Champions league/Premier league/Serie A/Primera Liga etc and soccer isn't that popular in Australia) about their nightly sports show and lack of Badminton, they claim they couldn't buy the time.

    So then I e-mailed IBF about this and forward a scanned copy of SBS's reply.

    I was disappointed with the IBF's reply back to me.

    I would like to see the IBF aid national bodies in making Badminton avaiable for showing on TV!

    I understand Star Sports has the majority/rights to most of the Badminton tournment highlights etc - why can't IBF arrange/purchase in the intrest of national bodies - some of these or negoitate to have them realeased in part to National bodies to oragnise with Networks, or step in themselves - giving more exposure on TV!:confused:
     
    #15 jump_smash, Feb 27, 2004
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2004
  16. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Lack of Networks , Major Sponsors , Exposure etc.. If badminton were a National Game in America, i think it will do great. Most of the private companies in Asia are kinda conservative in Sponsoring Badminton as it is lack in T.V coverage. All about money and advertisements. Maybe some of the players don't have Star appearance ? For Eg.. Yao Ming went to NBA.. now everyone want to have a piece of him. And even some of the English Premiership players from China.. they have good coverage and sponsors.

    Sometimes its just lack of TV time. A normal game last for only 30mins 1hr to 1/2hrs Tv time.. compare to NBA 48mins game time and around 3hrs TV time ( plus ads etc ).
    Its all about money and hype. Maybe we should promote it like Tennis , make the game longer if not more TV break time ( so the players can rest more ).
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    For my two cents, I would like to see more post-match interviews. But, it is rather unfair to ask a person who is usually used to being on a badminton court suddenly thrust into an interview on TV. Imagine if it happened to you! If the person is not used to public speaking, then an image comes across of not being very animated.

    Here's one solution: At least try to give players some element of media exposure and mock interviews. Give them scenarios depicting clips of play and ask them to comment.

    When it comes to the real thing, ie live interviews, then at least they will come across more animated to the TV audience.

    For the non-english speaking players, perhaps a translator who the player is familiar with can help the interview. All the better if the translator has some badminton knowledge. For example, I know a couple of the HK players and so would not mind the slightest trying to help out in a translation from Cantonese to English.

    But I do love it now that players are more animated on court (like Jonas' dance in China Open), or Xia XZ. That should be encouraged more.

    other points
    Some of the Sports on TV use a slow motion repeat of play and try to educate the viewer on tactics, positioning etc. This might be an area to explore. But one big disadvantage is that in one match, there are only a maximum of two breaks and one of them is 90 seconds! Can a 5 set match of 9 points with 2.5 minutes inbetween assist this? 5 sets won't come back after the problems of the 11 point game for mixed doubles, but time out breaks may be a solution to help presenters rerun that special game play.

    I tend to agree with the setting rule. It's not 'so useful' if the game has 15 points. BUT, it can add to the tension if it is in the final game. After all, 3rd set 14-14 is really exciting. Who would want the match to end?!
     
  18. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Yup , true.. Sometimes i think the badminton players are too boring.. not enough expressions and court antics.
     
  19. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    Ants-- If that's the case, then American Football (NFL) and baseball would have taken over the world:D. As for Yao Ming's fame and acceptance, he's in a game that has been around American public consciousness for a long time... definitely no comparison.

    Cheung-- good suggestion to create interest via introduction and analysis into the intricacies of the game. Goodness knows how fanatical american sports fans get with statistics and other finer details of their favorite sports.

    Increasing player exposure to media lets the fans acqaint and identify with the players, gives the sport a dramatic edge that's sometimes lost when televised. Also, having more players involved in media would meant that they could go into commentating after leaving the sport, bringing their experience and expertise to the audience.

    Someone once complained about the boredom of watching non-emotive Chinese squads in the 80's-early 90's. Whether one likes it or not, expressive emotions sell... and especially sells well in the american public.

    How about introducing edited games to accommodate those features? Have two versions of the games, live feed for badminton majority regions and edited rerun feed with the incorporated extras for N.A. and other minority regions.


     
  20. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Cappy.. hehe just my tots. anyway.. if there is an American Champion.. i'm sure it will make headlines hehehe
     

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