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  1. #35
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    I also notice that FHF doesn't seem to smash as hard as he used to. He only hits into the 260km/hr range these days.

    I think this is smart, its enough to win points and he wants to prolong his career into 2016. He seems to be more relaxed and at ease. Not straining himself to put more power into his smash.

  2. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by okooko View Post
    CY/FHF's pairing worked well with FHF being a the hammer from the back of the court and CY dominating the rest.
    ZN's pairing needs some work with FHF coz they play differently together due to various skills and it seems like FHF is improving his non-smashing plays.
    I think ZN should try to replace CY's role coz FHF is good where he was and was winning while he was there.
    If you look carefully, youll see that FHF started these improvements a long time ago. My guess is that he just feels more comfortable going to the net with ZN, whereas with CY he feels the need to go to the back as soon as he gets a chance.
    I also dont think the pairing would work with that 'classic' approach alone, the service situation and flat game are too important these days. I think playing primarily with Fu at the front, but being very interchangeable in their positions is the way to go for them.

  3. #37
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhuangcorp View Post
    Zhang Nan's approach to net play is surely very different. He almost never lifts and likes to play hairpin shots or pushes. But 1 thing i would like to see him change is that he is a bit TOO eager at times to get to the net. That makes FHF do almost all of the hard smashing work.

    Zhang Nan should feel comfortable to do some smashing as well. After all, he does all the smashing in his XD. He seems intimidated to smash in the MD.
    Most likely because he has to conserve his energy for his XD games with ZYL...

  4. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Most likely because he has to conserve his energy for his XD games with ZYL...
    I've always thought that the concept of pro athletes getting tired after one match a bit iffy. On a typical day, the chinese athletes do a morning session for skills, afternoon session with matches, and then some no racket physical training (just from watching some youtube videos of their interviews). Sure they play fast in a match, but i'm sure they train just as hard as they play a match, or at least at a relatively fast pace. Do they really have to conserve energy in a MD match just to play well in XD? Also, regarding physicality, men are typically (and to quote daft punk) "harder better faster stronger". I honestly don't think athletes of their caliber need to save any juice for their second match of the day. If ZYL can consistently play 2 matches a day and still win both, why can't ZN? Sure the guy works harder, but even LYD, KSH and a wealth of korean men's doubles players have proven they can work in two disciplines and be world+olympic champs. Some would also say that doubles is a lot faster than singles, but you also get two players cover a full court, whilst singles players cover a full court by themselves.

    Just a thought to ponder upon, and it'd be interesting to hear other people's opinions on this.

  5. #39
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    Well I think that Zhang Nan probably doesn't expend that much energy in his matches. He doesn't rely on a huge smash to win points. If you watch Xu Chen, sometimes he looks totally exhausted after just 2 sets in XD where he does almost all the hard work smashing from the baseline.

    My best guess is that ZN/FHF pulled out so that ZN can mentally and tactically prepare against natsir/ahmad. They lost pretty badly the last time, so CBA may be worried about the state of their top XD pair.

  6. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ozafo0 View Post
    I've always thought that the concept of pro athletes getting tired after one match a bit iffy. On a typical day, the chinese athletes do a morning session for skills, afternoon session with matches, and then some no racket physical training (just from watching some youtube videos of their interviews). Sure they play fast in a match, but i'm sure they train just as hard as they play a match, or at least at a relatively fast pace. Do they really have to conserve energy in a MD match just to play well in XD? Also, regarding physicality, men are typically (and to quote daft punk) "harder better faster stronger". I honestly don't think athletes of their caliber need to save any juice for their second match of the day. If ZYL can consistently play 2 matches a day and still win both, why can't ZN? Sure the guy works harder, but even LYD, KSH and a wealth of korean men's doubles players have proven they can work in two disciplines and be world+olympic champs. Some would also say that doubles is a lot faster than singles, but you also get two players cover a full court, whilst singles players cover a full court by themselves.

    Just a thought to ponder upon, and it'd be interesting to hear other people's opinions on this.
    training and playing a real match is a different things...

    to win a match, pro players need to be on top of the physical & mental abilities because their opponents are pro too...

    of cause, these pro can play day & night but not 100% focus and most likely not at top speed & power

    if a players face a lesser player, there will be no problem for them to whack morning till night, but to play equally good players, that's quite impossible

    even in one tight match, i noticed, players getting slower in game 3, making more mistake due to mental and physical fatigue.

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SibugiChai View Post
    training and playing a real match is a different things...

    to win a match, pro players need to be on top of the physical & mental abilities because their opponents are pro too...

    of cause, these pro can play day & night but not 100% focus and most likely not at top speed & power

    if a players face a lesser player, there will be no problem for them to whack morning till night, but to play equally good players, that's quite impossible

    even in one tight match, i noticed, players getting slower in game 3, making more mistake due to mental and physical fatigue.
    I agree that by the third set, the player might be slower from fatigue. A whole hour or non-stop movement is not the same as planned training. The players train with pro's, and in particular the chinese teams, these players get to spar against reigning world champs and olympic winners.

    But if they can play at the top level, I believe a "walkover" doesn't actually give the players that much advantage. In fact, not playing a game to ramp them up for ascending difficulty might even be disadvantageous.

    Given an hour or two to rest and get some food, possibly even slip in a good stretch and massage, I think ZN would be able to be physically rested enough for another match. However, to be able to play both disciplines, switch the thinking between the two events would be the trickier part to accomplish.

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    ZN/FHF certainly had an incredible week. Beating the Asian Games champions Ahsan/Setiawan, the World Champions Shin/Ko, and the World #1 Lee/Yoo.

    That's an incredible 3 game win streak. More importantly, they play a new style of Chinese MD that is oriented around movement and net play rather than just smashing. But can they keep it up? Last year LXL/QZH went on a similar run and then totally fell apart.

    Personally, I would like to see ZN play only MD. Let ZYL pair with Liu Cheng or Lu Kai in the XD.

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhuangcorp View Post
    ZN/FHF certainly had an incredible week. Beating the Asian Games champions Ahsan/Setiawan, the World Champions Shin/Ko, and the World #1 Lee/Yoo.

    That's an incredible 3 game win streak. More importantly, they play a new style of Chinese MD that is oriented around movement and net play rather than just smashing. But can they keep it up? Last year LXL/QZH went on a similar run and then totally fell apart.

    Personally, I would like to see ZN play only MD. Let ZYL pair with Liu Cheng or Lu Kai in the XD.
    The problem with LXL and QZH is that their game is all physical and u can see that QZH has gotten fatter and unfit, he cannot sustain that kind of all out attacking play.
    ZN and FHF is much more defensively stable with great counter attack that’s completely missing from other Chinese pairs…

    You look at CB/HW both sucks at the front and can barely turn any attack into a counter attack, CB is easily one of the most error prone players I’ve ever seen. They lift and lift waiting to get smashed and whenever CB tries to counter attack more often than not it is into the net.

    CY/LK… Cy is just too old and slow nowadays he cannot keep up while Lu Kai is too inconsistent as well.

    Cheng Liu/Kang Jun… again freaking so error prone, and everytime KJ is at the back they are basically gone because his smash is useless… he is like ultra error prone weak version of the younger cai yun.
    Cheng Liu has a very nice smash… but not much else.

    Liu Yuchen and Li Junhui… Li Junhui is like another Cai Biao with no net play and one hugeeeee smash that’s all… LYC has to do all the work in the partnership and he is still too raw… they may have potential or could be another huge flop.

    Personally I wanna see more of Wang Yilv, he looks very promising along with the other junior champs…

    Time to train up the new young pairs… with the flat attacking style of play IMO.

  10. #44
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    Although ZN/FHF are not exactly "new" since they are a 7 month old partnership, I have to say I was very impressed by their match against LYD/YYS.

    I have seen matches in their past and I was quite disappointed by the new pairing earlier in 2014, but it seems this is really the first time I've seen them really be competitive against the top pairs (Moe/Boe, LYD/YYS, SET/AHS). We were all looking for ZN to really fill the shoes of CY at the net and probably weren't pleased when they didn't have that many great results all year.

    But today, the way they played the final of the denmark open was just fabulous. There was fantastic counter attacking all around, great aggressive play, great interceptions at the net, accurate and great angled smashing. It's really now the flavor of men's doubles that's the most successful where there's less focus on having a huge smash (though it helps).

    Personally I think what ZN brings to this partnership that CY didn't is his capability at the back court, though I think we can agree that CY just barely edges out ZN at the net in terms of dominance. But this way the partnership isn't reliant on FHF being the smasher at the back to be successful and there is more equality in attacking capability at the back of the court. I saw numerous fantastic angles and variety from ZN's smashing that I never saw from CY (who primarily hit neutral drop shots and half smashes until he could rotate with FHF to take over the smashes).

  11. #45
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    IMHO, it was the defensive abilities of FHF/ZN that make them better than the rest of China MD. I have not seen China MD able to defend like they did. China MD always has strong attacks but defensively, this is the only pair who can do it

  12. #46
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    Wow, this pair completely dominated Ahsan/Setiawan and Yoo/Lee at Denmark Open. Speed, flat fast exchanges, smashes, they have everything.

    But ZN is playing the best I've ever seen him play, being able to play both front or back, I'd say even better than CY at his peak. And mid to front is where he dominated, with incredible leg speed and particularly hand speed to play lightning fast and tactically accurate passing shots that constantly had the KOR pair scrambling desperately.

    Fu/Zhang also won the upper hand in the all important service and return, gaining many points just in the first 3 shots alone.

    It's gonna be tough for ZN, though as now he and CBA have to decide whether he can withstand the physical rigors of playing both MD and XD disciplines with Fu and ZYL respectively tournament after tournament going forward into the next Olympic cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    It's gonna be tough for ZN, though as now he and CBA have to decide whether he can withstand the physical rigors of playing both MD and XD disciplines with Fu and ZYL respectively tournament after tournament going forward into the next Olympic cycle.
    So he/they need to decide if he continues playing with his wife or not

  14. #48
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    I really think we need to have a poll.

    What should Zhang Nan play?

    (1) XD only
    (2) MD only
    (3) both

  15. #49
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    Sorry for my ignorance but why are Cai Yun and Fu Heifeng not playing together anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVStrike13 View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance but why are Cai Yun and Fu Heifeng not playing together anymore.
    they already achieved the peak. now must try different thgs.

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVStrike13 View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance but why are Cai Yun and Fu Heifeng not playing together anymore.
    AFAIK, Cai Yun is now focusing on guiding young team members (Lu Kai) as he is quite old and not capable of playing high level badminton in long period. Fu Haifeng is still having another chance at Rio 2016 and thus finding a right partner for him is important to China team.

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