predicting direction of certain smashes: what are some indicators?

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by thumpsky, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    I'm watching this Fu Haifeng video, and if you pause at around 0:49 you see how he squares his feet towards the shuttlecock. it would appear that the direction of the subsequent smash is exactly perpendicular to where his shoulders and feet are pointing.

    Can we use this as a general rule for predicting the direction of jump smashes, when the lift forces them to move backwards slightly?

    [video=youtube;d4B9z_WJAKs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4B9z_WJAKs[/video]
     
  2. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    To make a long story short: No.
     
  3. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Good video though thanks:)
     
  4. *___*

    *___* Regular Member

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    Possibly, kind of.

    If anyone's read Bounce - Matthew Syed (excellent book, recommend it to everyone) you'll know that when tennis players receive a serve, they aren't looking at the ball and the racquet, but at the servers hips and trunk to get an indication of where the serve is going. This is crucial to succeed at top level.

    Could this relate to badminton? I see no reason why not. I guess we'd only know if a former top tennis player attempted to return some badminton smashes. By the same logic, anyone good at returning smashes in badminton, would likely, at least initially be useless at returning a fast accurate tennis serve. Would be a very interesting experiment.
     
  5. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    You can probably get some indication yes, but looking at how much LCW throws his shoulder across his body for a XC you cannot rely on it.
     
  6. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    That's something else I noticed. Some ppl rotate more than others for their smash, and it's also dependent on the situation.

    With doubles there's more time to set up, so I think you're more likely to see the smash going roughly "perpendicular" to the back players shoulders.
     
  7. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    What's an XC?
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Good observation. Can you dig out any other examples? Presumably, if we are looking at an association of smash direction and position of hips, it should hold true for other players as well.
     
  9. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    I'm gonna do some attacking drills with some rec players tomorrow and test out my theory :p
     
  10. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    Here's an exercise for badminton central: find a men's doubles game, and pause the video every time the shuttle is lifted.

    Note the position of smasher and in which direction his body is squared. Based on his set up alone before he smashes, predict which direction he will hit: left, right, or center.

    Also note in which direction the lift is making him move: backwards to the right or left, forwards to the right or left, or not at all.

    See how many you get right! :p
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    As in all things, it depends... ;)

    If it's it hard smash requiring max power (like in tennis serve as mentioned above), then yes, you can read the shoulder and hip.

    But in badminton, forearm pronation and wrist flexion can be used to control direction at the expense of lesser power, and this is where you cannot depend on the shoulder and hip position. Eg watch Setiawan when he does one of his famous XC smash.
     
  12. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Yes exactly, but only problem is you don't know if he is going to do a "max power" smash either untill after it's been hit so you gain no advantage by knowing which side a max power smash will go if he check's his racket and drops or slices. If anything if you commit you get taxi'd easier and if you are suspiciously all over my smashes that's what I will try to do to you:D
     
  13. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    are badminton players ever taught to pay attention body language when defending against smashes?
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Depends how experienced you are. Read the book "Bounce" as mentioned above and also the subject of another thread in the forum. It's very interesting and makes the claim that you can learn these things.
     
  15. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    In the meantime, look at some other players on youtube. ;)
     
  16. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    Here's a video where you get a somewhat clear idea of the positioning of the feet before the smash. I think the back foot is most telling. I was able to guess correctly about half the smashes when i got a clear view of the feet right before the jump.

    there are also other variables to consider, like in which direction the smasher is being forces to move.

    [video=youtube;1OPlSHP1nHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OPlSHP1nHk[/video]
     
    #16 thumpsky, Mar 19, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  17. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    "I was able to guess correctly about half the smashes"

    Yes, true guessing will give random results => no benefit at all. In your own words, you have not been able to predict smash direction any better than randomly guessing.
     
  18. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    wrong word choice. I was able to predict with 50% success.

    My criteria is looking at the back foot immediately prior to "launch". I'm also looking at in which direction the smasher is being pushed. If he's going straight backwards, the smash tends to be perfectly straight. If he's right handed and moving right, it tends to produce an extreme angle to the right.
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    correct prediction of left or right ? 50% isn't bad at all ;)
     
  20. thumpsky

    thumpsky Regular Member

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    left, right, or middle
     

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