# Thread: When does the umpire call out a match or game point?

1. ## When does the umpire call out a match or game point?

Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find any games with referees where it went to 29-all, so here's my question: When does the umpire announce a game point or match point?Obviously, when one side reaches, say, 20-19 in the first game, the umpire announces "20 game point 19". What happens if the opposite side score twice after that; is the announcement "21 game point 20", or simply "21 20"?Then, there's the issue of 29 points. The appendix of the badminton rules mentions "29 game point 28". Does that just happen if team A was always one point ahead or level until team B overtook them at 29:28, or do you always announce that?Then, there's the matter of 29:29 in the second set. How do you call out that? The rules just mention "29 game point all" and "29 match point all".

2. Haven not checked the rules but I assume only when the serving party is on game- or matchpoint which after 21 points would always be the case when the score is not tied with the exception of 29-29. Not sure I understand the question when you mention the rules say "29 game/match point all" already?

3. No, when you observe umpires at top-level games, they say something like
"20 game point 19""service over, 20 all""service over, 21 20"

About 29:29: In the first set, it's obviously a game point for both players, and in the third, it's obviously a match point for both as well. But in the second set, 29:29 is a game point for the player who lost the first set, and a match point for the other one. Therefore, both "match point all" and "game point all" would be inaccurate.

4. The only times it is announced is at 20-x (where x is below 20) or 29-28, or 29-all. When it goes to 21-20, it is just 21-20 and NOT 21 game/match point 20, continuing until it reaches 29. At 29-all 2nd game, because you say the server's score 1st, you say game or match point depending who's serving. If the server won the 1st game, it is therefore 29-match point all. If the server lost the 1st game, it is 29-game point all.

5. @CantSmashThis Thank you very much! If you don't mind me asking somewhat off-topic, are there any BWF guidelines or training materials for umpires where I could look up questions like this? All I can find on bwfbadminton.com (apart from the rules) is this presentation: http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=534725&dl=1

6. look here : http://www.bwfbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=14915Part II Section 1B Appendix 4 - Vocabulary http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=550373&dl=1And Part II Section 2 - Recommendations to Technical Officials (RTTO) http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=550377&dl=1

7. sorry about the poor setup in the last post.

8. Thanks for the links! However, unless I'm mistaken, they all point to the rules and regulations (don't they?). I cited these in the original post, and the reason why I posted this thread is that they do not include a precise explanation of when to call out game point/match point (again, unless I'm overlooking something). I was looking for more content in the vein of like the "Tops for Umpires" or "Scenarios for discussion" in the May 2014 presentation.

9. Originally Posted by phihag
No, when you observe umpires at top-level games, they say something like
"20 game point 19""service over, 20 all""service over, 21 20"

About 29:29: In the first set, it's obviously a game point for both players, and in the third, it's obviously a match point for both as well. But in the second set, 29:29 is a game point for the player who lost the first set, and a match point for the other one. Therefore, both "match point all" and "game point all" would be inaccurate.
In a written form, it would be apparently inaccurate. Here's how I understand the vocabulary - the score is always notified from the server's side first. Recall, "Love-all; play." The "all" signifies all sides, meaning both sides of the net. There is no confusion here, right? This is what RTTO 3.3.7.3. states.

In practice, the phrase is enunciated with a pause, as in "29-match point [very brief pause] all," that is the server has match point, and all signifies 29 points on both sides,--or-- "29-game point [very brief pause] all." Ditto.

This is one of the things that a umpire practices the night before, before counting sheep. An umpire who has anticipated all eventualities, has also prepared in best way possible.

10. Originally Posted by phihag
Thanks for the links! However, unless I'm mistaken, they all point to the rules and regulations (don't they?). I cited these in the original post, and the reason why I posted this thread is that they do not include a precise explanation of when to call out game point/match point (again, unless I'm overlooking something). I was looking for more content in the vein of like the "Tops for Umpires" or "Scenarios for discussion" in the May 2014 presentation.
The laws, of any organised sport, will most likely never have a precise explanation of all possible scenarios; however, they will cover those scenarios.

And which is this May 2014 presentation you reference? Is this from the BWF?

As for the tips for umpires (if that is what you meant), most umpires make their own summaries. As for the scenarios for discussion, perhaps it is time you got in on their game. These ump chappies almost always discuss them at the end of each day/night's session. Blag you way in on such a gathering when you get a chance if you find where they are holed up.

11. ## Umpire resources

Originally Posted by 2wheels04
And which is this May 2014 presentation you reference? Is this from the BWF?
Sorry, I confused the date, it's actually March 2014. I apologize for not posting the link upfront: http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=534725&dl=1

That's all I can find on the umpire site http://www.bwfbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=14902 , apart from the official documents (rules, TO recommendations) at http://www.bwfbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=14915 . Am I overlooking other documents at bwfbadminton.org?

Originally Posted by 2wheels04
As for the tips for umpires (if that is what you meant), most umpires make their own summaries. As for the scenarios for discussion, perhaps it is time you got in on their game. These ump chappies almost always discuss them at the end of each day/night's session. Blag you way in on such a gathering when you get a chance if you find where they are holed up.
That's precisely what I meant, thank you for the tip! I'll try to catch some umpires at the next big tournament here.

12. looks like park joo bong will have a busy weekend, cause both his boys & girls are playing in the final

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