Bad technique permanent?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Hello___1, May 29, 2014.

  1. Hello___1

    Hello___1 New Member

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    I read an article about ping pong recently which worries me. Quote:
    "Teaching them while they’re young. A coach tells Beam he can never be that good because his bad technique is already habitual. In China, players are taught from an insanely early age. As a result, they habitually play with perfect technique."
    My coach is an international-level player but she admits she also had to correct some bad habits.
    I think its possible he article is only talking about elite ping pong players with delusional dreams about ever getting onto the national team... let alone have their name printed somewhere.
    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Hello___1

    Hello___1 New Member

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    Just to clarify i'm talking about badminton, but ping ping is very similar to badminton
     
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Yeah, but there are a lot of players in China who don't have good technique as well who would have started when young :)

    IMO, it depends what level you try to play at. If you are trying at international level, then imperfections will show more clearly and you need more hours on training.
     
  4. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    You are what you think.

    If you think you can't change a bad habit, you can't change it.

    If you think you can, you can.
     
  5. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    While it's true that it is harder to unlearn a bad habit than learning something new, it is still possible.
     
  6. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Whilst it is not impossible, it is highly unlikely.

    In order to have good technique, you need to practice the correct technique for many many hours (lets say 1,000 hours of practice). This practice needs to be done with focus and discipline.

    Imagine you have spent 1000 hours practicing the wrong thing. It will now be difficult to practice for even 1 hour using the correct technique. However, it can be done. And if you complete the 1000 hours practicing the correct thing, then you will succeed.

    The reason most people do not achieve this, unless they started young, is that when you get older, other things tend to take priority e.g. work, or family, or studying etc. This makes it harder to devote the necessary time to the skills in order to achieve the 1000 hours practice. It is not to do with things being easier when younger (as in easier to learn), but because it is easier to find time to practice when younger because you do not have so many responsibilities. And thats not to mention being physically fit enough to do the work!

    What I hope my post teaches you, is that you can achieve whatever you want if you put the effort in, but it is not easy. Remember - its not easy for those people e.g. Lee Chong Wei who have achieved great skills. And if its not easy for them (who worked so very hard), imagine how much harder it will be for you - you need to fit in all the training they did, into a much shorter space of time, because you are starting after they are!

    Good luck!
     
  7. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    there are two issues here:

    (1) unlearn an old habit and then acquire a new habit
    (2) acquire a habit which you never had.

    i think they are different.
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Don't get bogged down by semantics. We're talking about improper techniques and how easy or hard they are to unlearn/relearn/correct.

    Of course it's possible. It just takes time, patience, and then some more time and patience.

    But it'll take a coach with a sharp eye and correct technique and teaching method to get you going on the right track.
     
    #8 visor, May 29, 2014
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  9. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    Yes, that's correct, and it's all down to 'muscle memory'.
     
  10. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    It is not about unlearning or forgetting the old ways of playing. It is about acquiring other method of playing the game. If the new way of playing is better, the not so efficient way will slowly gives way to the better way, hopefully. It all come down to if you want to improve. If the new way has a better result, why not. The key is don't be a stubborn person.
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Take something as simple as panhandle grip for clears. If someone has been doing this for years, it'll be initially strange for him to switch to forehand grip and incorporate pronation. But eventually with effort, focus and repetition, the old technique can be overwritten by the new technique.
     
  12. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    Totally disagree - muscle memory has to be reprogrammed. This is very much an 'unlearning'.
     
  13. alien9113

    alien9113 Regular Member

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    Bad techniques can be corrected if you put in the effort. I started off the same, but with time and substantial effort put in, it's corrected.

    Your own mindset plays a big part too. If you are unwilling to change because of reasons like "it gives me more power", "I have always won this way", etc, then no amount of time and effort spent will result in any form of corrections.
     
  14. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    I'd think it's not just practice and whether you want to change or not.
    I'd suggest that in addition to a lot of practice, it would probably be a good idea to stop playing games for a while, until your new techniques groove. Otherwise, when under pressure during games, your old habits would naturally come out and dominate.
     
  15. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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  16. towbsss

    towbsss Regular Member

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    In Daniel Coyle's "The Talent Code", he talks about the concept of myelination. Basically, every time you learn a new skill, you acquire a new neural circuit in your brain for that skill. Through practice, that circuit gets "myelinated" with white matter to make that circuit fire faster, hence being better at that skill. So back to the book, one of the fundamental principles he says is that "Myelin wraps - it doesn't unwrap", basically saying that you can't unlearn a previous acquired skill (unless through age or disease). However, you can build a new circuit, and work toward 'myelinating' that circuit.

    I suppose you would have to practice the new technique and refrain from using the old technique at all costs and see how things progress as you start accumulating more and more practice with the new technique. At the end of the day, technique may only be one part of the game. There's still a tactical, physical, and mental aspect. Technique does not trump the other 3! ;)
     
  17. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    I gave up smoking in 2 days. I was a 2-pack-a-day guy for 25 years.

    No one told me about myelination and not being able to unwrap. I guess that was a good thing! ;) :D
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    That's because the nicotine and tar chemicals were demyelinating your brain for every single and all those 365000 cigarettes that you had! :eek:
     
  19. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    Can you unlearn your ability to walk.
     
  20. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    take heart from the fact that LD, LCW and LXR all have bad habits and that they are still unlearning and learning every day.
     
    #20 pcll99, May 30, 2014
    Last edited: May 30, 2014

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