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  1. #52
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    @visor . Thanks for the confirmation. I do realize (a few post back) those were not what OP was asking

    And I do realize the "demonstrated" shots "require a very good touch, finesse, and judgement of the reach, limits and abilities of the front player", as I repeatedly mentioned in my previous posts. Yes, it can be very risky, and yes, when applicable, they're better than a lift.

  2. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    It seems to me that the upwards trajectory isn't key in avoiding the front player in most of these examples.
    I'm pretty sure I can find a more representative video if I spend more time. I'd say that upward trajectory (i.e. height) is very important even if you play from the side,and esp. when the front player is just underneath your shot. Too flat, and it risks being intercepted. Too high, and it risks giving too much time for the rear player.

  3. #54
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    Raymond:
    Well done for finding the examples of push shots! They can be buggers to find as they are not always very memorable.

    I do not think that hitting upwards is necessarily relevant - except that its necessary to do so when you take the shuttle late! As long as it goes past the front player, and doesn't sit up too much (i.e. taken around net height - but not above), then its a good shot. Many view it as a "nothing shot" - they are wrong

    May I suggest, to all those looking for a good example of the shot that one should play against a fast drop shot, that this video by Peter Rasmussen is the best one to look at. He calls it the neutral net shot, I call it a push, but never mind. I think neutral net shot is a good word for it - the purpose is to give your opponent nothing to work with - the same reason he hit his fast drop against you!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7W90mOwE7M

    Observe how, during every demosntration, Rasmussen takes the shuttle from a long way below net height. He hits the shuttle softly, not high above the net, not tight to the net. Yes, he could hit it slightly harder and have it land in the midcourt if he chose.

    To the OP: the shuttle is slow, but there is NO WAY an opponent could kill this - they may be able to drive it back flatish, or indeed play the same shot back to you.

    If you are not able to play this shot (and look - he takes it up to 2 feet below the height of the net), or a similar shot like raymond showed, then you are not taking the shuttle early enough - you are moving your feet too slow.

    From a purely theoretical point of view - there is no way your opponent can play a shot fast and steep from the back of the court - it is either steep but slower, giving you time to get forwards to take it early, or it is faster and not so steep, which means when it arrives it won't have dropped too low to play the shot. Either way, if you use your feet properly, and reach forwards (its only 1 step after all), you should be able to take any fast drop and play this neutral net shot in reply (or cross drive, or cross net, or straight drive or.... you get the point, loads of options!).

    Good luck all!

  4. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    Raymond:
    I do not think that hitting upwards is necessarily relevant - except that its necessary to do so when you take the shuttle late
    Hi Matt, thanks for your confirmation of this not so common shot. I now feel I'm completely vindicated!!

    I think you may be the 2nd person on this thread that mentioned "height" or "hitting up" is not relevant, and am wondering if we're talking about the same thing.

    I don't mean to say the shot needs to be "very high", or must be of certain height at all time. Rather, I'm talking about the height control for the situation, given your 2 opponents skills, habits and positions.

  5. #56
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    Raymond, these half lifts, half pushes are becoming a part of MD double games. Even junior level MD competitive teams are using them. I am surprised that you need to prove it.... I guess one has to encounter more Indonesian/Malaysian players....
    GC or MF frequently commented on using the mid-court areas. Well, learning to hit these shots is not easy - knowing when to use it is just as important.
    Thank you for biting your tongue.... Got to give it to you.

  6. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    Hi Matt, thanks for your confirmation of this not so common shot. I now feel I'm completely vindicated!!

    I think you may be the 2nd person on this thread that mentioned "height" or "hitting up" is not relevant, and am wondering if we're talking about the same thing.

    I don't mean to say the shot needs to be "very high", or must be of certain height at all time. Rather, I'm talking about the height control for the situation, given your 2 opponents skills, habits and positions.
    In all honesty, I mentioned height because others had. For all these shots I am not going to be focused in any way on the height of the shuttle - I want to play a push, and it needs to get past the front player, and it needs to get to that gap at the sides as quickly as I can make it do so!

    Im afraid my understanding of badminton is relatively simplistic - a push is a push as long as it lands in about the right place at about the right speed, travelling relatively flat. The OP wants to counter fast drop shots without using a lift - I recommend a push These shots can be tricky to judge, and it takes some nerve to play them if you know your opponent is a skillful net player. But remember - if they can get to this shot easily, then it means they are leaving gaps elsewhere on the court!

    And thats honestly all I care in this matter! As I said - quite a simplistic view of the world, but badminton is an extraordinarily simple game that can be massively over complicated!

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    Im afraid my understanding of badminton is relatively simplistic - a push is a push as long as it lands in about the right place at about the right speed, travelling relatively flat.
    Thank god I'm not the only one!

    I've never understood why some people (I'm looking at you, Badminton England) mangle these shot names. A push is a flattish shot into the midcourt. Pushes are hit "medium soft".

    You can play a push as a serve return.
    You can play a push as smash defence.
    You can play a push from the net.
    You can play a push from the midcourt.

    It's still a push. And it's very useful, especially when directed straight down the tramlines in doubles.

    Often pushes have to travel upwards a bit, because you were contacting the shuttle below net height (as when replying to a fast drop). It's still a push.

    In doubles the main tactical role of the push is to "find the gap" between the front and back attackers. This pretty much defines the shot.


    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    ...badminton is an extraordinarily simple game that can be massively over complicated!
    I think badminton is an extraordinarily complicated game that can be massively simplified. Knowing how (and when) to simplify it is part of being a good teacher.

  8. #59
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    Welcome back Gollum...

  9. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Welcome back Gollum...
    Hiya Visor.

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