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  1. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by renbo View Post
    Some of you guys are biased yourself on your critics of GC an MF. They don't praise LD as much as some of young fan would like, but this is not being biased. Praising LCW is not also being biased, LCW is indeed a formidable player.
    GC is most of the time loudly praising the Chinese WS ("we tend to overlook their fantastic technical skills because of their great physicality"), specially WHY and LXR, and repeated endlesslsy that Chinese WD changed the game, made it exciting and closer to MD.
    The fact that one does not share all of your opinions do not make that person "biased".
    Please watch the 2011 world championships final between LD and LCW. Mr. Morten Frost is basically rooting for LCW. The match finally ends like this -
    Morten, "I have been saying this all week, and I will say it again, Chong Wei plays the best overall"
    Other commentator(perhaps Kauffman), "But Lin Dan is the champion"
    Morten, "yes, he is" (The tone unmistakably meant that winning the title didn't mean much)

    Now I concede, they are indeed appreciative sometimes and of some players (like Gill has a special crush on Wang Xiaoli, "the creativity", and Zhao Yunlei). The overall environment is basically unappreciative and rather nauseating. I watched the London Olympics final sometime back and was actually evaluating every statement of Gill, and I found a common theme that while she credited for LCW's good shots, she focused more on errors of LCW when LD comes up with a spectacle. "Just a little bit of error from LCW". If you want, I can write a research paper on this by evaluating comments in some matches. But I will do it after 2 weeks, coz I have my exams coming.

  2. #240
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    If you look at MF's career, you would understand why he has a soft spot for LCW and is allegedly against Chinese. MF himself was the perpetual second best thanks to there great Chinese players like HJ, YY and ZJH.

  3. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssj100 View Post
    MF said it. However, I suppose there's a difference between "how many titles one has" and "technically the greatest ever". Also it's impossible to compare eras. I think if LD had a 30-0 H2H record against LCW, then we could call him quite clearly the greatest ever. Or if LD never lost to TH in the World champs and Asian Games final. LD is/was well ahead of his peers, but then so were all past "greatest of all timers"
    Quote Originally Posted by ssj100 View Post
    Overall, for sure. LCW is a close second.

    I still think that technically, LCW is at least as good as LD though. Perhaps even better. But then it's like saying Roger Federer is technically better than Rafael Nadal in tennis - really debatable.
    if you still think that a 23:9 direct H2H record still could not say that LD is better than LCW, i am really speachless....


    this could not even be called a "close" second... he actually got a "close" third with H2H with him at just 8:9....

  4. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devendra View Post
    BTW, this is what H Vittinghus has to say about the CHN vs CHN XD semifinal

    "Another embarrassment for our sport watching this World Champs mixed semi final. Will it ever end? #obvious"

    He alleges match fixing. What do you guys think?
    badminton is a cursed sports... everyone just indulges in finding non-sports means to win something...

    have you seen the basketball WC match between USA and Finland earlier today? the Fins could not throw in a ball in Q2!!!

    is this fair? the Americans have so may money in NBA to make the strong in basketball, this is another kind of injustice in sports... yet there is no complaint from the Fins....

    the USA team have been winning almost every WC and OG, so dominant that the ROW could only compete for the silver. should USA basketball team be forbidden to play in all WCs for the health of the sports according to some badminton fans' statement???

    in basketball, the ROW (like Spain, France, Greek, etc) just try to improve themselves on court, try to catch up USA team by sports means, not by whining around and ask for non-sports privilege to dwarfing the USA team... this is the true healthy attitude in sports IMO!!!

  5. #243
    Regular Member phanlinhkhuong's Avatar
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    what racket is Lee Yong Dae using last night? Is that BS12 or BS12N?

  6. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devendra View Post
    Please watch the 2011 world championships final between LD and LCW. Mr. Morten Frost is basically rooting for LCW. The match finally ends like this -
    Morten, "I have been saying this all week, and I will say it again, Chong Wei plays the best overall"
    Other commentator(perhaps Kauffman), "But Lin Dan is the champion"
    Morten, "yes, he is" (The tone unmistakably meant that winning the title didn't mean much)

    Now I concede, they are indeed appreciative sometimes and of some players (like Gill has a special crush on Wang Xiaoli, "the creativity", and Zhao Yunlei). The overall environment is basically unappreciative and rather nauseating. I watched the London Olympics final sometime back and was actually evaluating every statement of Gill, and I found a common theme that while she credited for LCW's good shots, she focused more on errors of LCW when LD comes up with a spectacle. "Just a little bit of error from LCW". If you want, I can write a research paper on this by evaluating comments in some matches. But I will do it after 2 weeks, coz I have my exams coming.
    I understand what you said but I do not agree. You have to consider the history of badminton to understand what MF said during that final.
    At the 08 OLY, LD crushed everyone, and specially LCW. MF said that was the best badminton display he ever saw. But after that LCW changed his style and became an aggressive player. Slowly the H2H between these two became balanced.
    At the 2011 WC final, LCW had arrived at a technical and physical level some, like MF ( and me) considered above LD. But other factors come into play, like handling pressure and tactics. In those, LD proved to remain on top.
    Anyway, what MF said at the end was that LCW was as good as LD (during the post 08 OLY period) and that LD would take all the titles would not reflect this equality.
    You might think this is being biased, but I say it is an assessment quite informed.

  7. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    Mods must be doing their job

    And why the discussion on LD and TH? They haven't even entered
    Classic second sentence..

  8. #246
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    Its a bane of many commentators to show who their preference is unfortunately. On the whole I welcome and enjoy the commentary by both GC and MF. They have such a treasure of experience and give it to us everytime they are on. I also enjoy the commentaries by the other two gentlemen in this competition The discussion they have is very interesting and their analysis is good and its a refreshing change.
    On the issue of limiting the number of participants as the two gentlemen said, if its the olympics then there is a case for this as you want more countries to take part. But in the world championships its an individual so the best in the world should be represented. One should liken the similar participants to a classical piece played by different symphonies. Was it good or better than the last time you heard it play.
    Can you imagine if the Chinese table tennis team stopped participating at world competitions. Or the jamaicans refrained from the sprint events.
    As a badminton enthusiast I would like to see more TH,LD,LCW PG and all those wonderful skills they demonstrated. Please leave out patroitism as its the last refuge of a scoundrel
    And I must add that the commentators are far from that. They are doing a great job and please dont let these small comments hurt your feelings.

  9. #247
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    But one should not only consider LD. We should consider the development of the China team globally.
    At the Indian GPG, in the final between Song Xue and Shrikanth, MF was very positive about Xue Song's play. And one can understand that beside nationalities, there are style of play that appeal or not to some.
    The previous generation of Chinese MS was exciting, lively, and had personalities of different types, like Chen Hong, Bao Chunlai and of course LD.
    But after that the Team began to shape similar-style players, with Chen Jin as the perfect example. Junior players with flamboyant style, like Wang Zhengming, became robotic players after a while with the A team.
    Now who liked to watch Chen Jin play? The overall direction given to the team is not pleasant, and this have nothing to do with liking Chinese player or not. It is about how we like badminton to be played.
    And saying that MF would dislike Chinese players because he himself encountered tough Chinese players is laughable at best. Such comments only reflect the mind set of the speaker.

  10. #248
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    If LCW had gotten to a physical level beyond LD, he wouldnt be losing all the 3 setters, and cramping.

  11. #249
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    i have seen that match like so many times before and as far as i remember, what morten frost said about lee chong wei is that 'he is the best player in the world at the moment' and he clearly said that he might not win this one but he was simply playing at another lever at that moment. right at the start of the match he also praised lin dan about his outstanding play and all. well i certainly differ from people here. .i never found anything biased from the commentators in that match.

  12. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonc108 View Post
    badminton is a cursed sports... everyone just indulges in finding non-sports means to win something...

    have you seen the basketball WC match between USA and Finland earlier today? the Fins could not throw in a ball in Q2!!!

    is this fair? the Americans have so may money in NBA to make the strong in basketball, this is another kind of injustice in sports... yet there is no complaint from the Fins....

    the USA team have been winning almost every WC and OG, so dominant that the ROW could only compete for the silver. should USA basketball team be forbidden to play in all WCs for the health of the sports according to some badminton fans' statement???

    in basketball, the ROW (like Spain, France, Greek, etc) just try to improve themselves on court, try to catch up USA team by sports means, not by whining around and ask for non-sports privilege to dwarfing the USA team... this is the true healthy attitude in sports IMO!!!
    he's talking about match fixing by CHN teams. not superior CHN teams.

    correct me if i'm wrong.

  13. #251
    Regular Member KB@TB Em's Avatar
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    Just found on badzine:
    Kim Sa Rang, the other half of the Kim/Kim Korean men’s pair, has sustained a shoulder injury and had to give a walk-over to their compatriots Ko/Shin. Kim – who played a very solid World Championships until now – is said to have an operation scheduled for next month for his shoulder injury.

    As I already stated I canīt really believe it was an W/O on purpose... Well, we dont know if they would have played if it wasnīt another Korean pair.
    The operation wonīt take part before the Asian Games?! Hope they can play in Incheon!

  14. #252
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    I cant believe anyone would argue MF wasnt biased in that wc11 match...

    Near the end all i heard was basically he was in tears as he spoke after LD won.

    Before that he was like ... Yesyesyes it's coming for lcw... The gold medal!

  15. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by volcom View Post
    If LCW had gotten to a physical level beyond LD, he wouldnt be losing all the 3 setters, and cramping.
    That is because of LD's tactical ability, in the case of the last WC. LD is able to do three things LCW fails to do as well : 1) anticipate 2) choose shots so he would not run 3) inject pace for 3-4 points and then slow down.

  16. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by volcom View Post
    I cant believe anyone would argue MF wasnt biased in that wc11 match...

    Near the end all i heard was basically he was in tears as he spoke after LD won.

    Before that he was like ... Yesyesyes it's coming for lcw... The gold medal!
    You can't believe because you fail to see others have different perspective

  17. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by renbo View Post
    I understand what you said but I do not agree. You have to consider the history of badminton to understand what MF said during that final.
    At the 08 OLY, LD crushed everyone, and specially LCW. MF said that was the best badminton display he ever saw. But after that LCW changed his style and became an aggressive player. Slowly the H2H between these two became balanced.
    At the 2011 WC final, LCW had arrived at a technical and physical level some, like MF ( and me) considered above LD. But other factors come into play, like handling pressure and tactics. In those, LD proved to remain on top.
    Anyway, what MF said at the end was that LCW was as good as LD (during the post 08 OLY period) and that LD would take all the titles would not reflect this equality.
    You might think this is being biased, but I say it is an assessment quite informed.
    Some of you LCW fanboys and your bias are quite laughable. The H2H between LCW and LD post 2008 Olympics is 12 wins for LD, 4 wins for LCW:

    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/pr...E-DDFA46A1333A

    If you throw out the 2012 Olympics and 2011 + 2013 WC, LCW has still lost plenty to LD so it's probably not a matter of nerves.

    I don't even know why LCW fanboys think LCW is technically on par with LD. It's obvious that LCW is technically inferior to LD, otherwise the H2H record would show a different picture. Again, look at the post 2008 Olympic H2H matches against LD: In LD's losses to LCW, LD got 16 points in a set (Swiss SS 2009). In LCW's losses to LD, LCW achieved single digits three times: 9 points (China SS 2008), 7 points (China SS 2009), and 8 points (Thomas Cup Malaysia 2010). Actually, post 2008 Olympics, LD has never had a set with single digits against LCW.

    Now the truth about technical skill. LD has is a superior net player. In fact, LD is probably the best net player in today's MS. This is how LD gets his opponent to lift and how LD gets control of the rally. In addition, LD has superior smash defense near the body. LCW just doesn't handle body smashes as well as LD, especially when they play against each other. LD has better anticipation than LCW (this is also a technical skill).

    Technically, the only thing I like about LCW more than LD is LCW's form for overhand clear. I don't like the position of LD's right hand/arm on his clears and LCW looks a little bit more balanced and natural. However, this isn't a deal breaker as LD has no problems clearing to the back and staying balanced for the return.

    Pre-2012 Olympics, it may have been barely debatable for LCW fan boys who think LCW was as good as LD. Post 2012 Olympics (and with LD's win against LCW in 2013 WC), it's not even barely debatable anymore, it's simply a fact that LD is superior to LCW in many areas, including the technical area.
    Last edited by galaxyduo; 08-31-2014 at 04:26 AM.

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