Body position moving forward

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Cheung, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I took this sequence of photos yesterday.

    Take note of the upper body angle to the horizontal axis after the shot is played. It's almost 45 degrees in the third picture. At lower levels of play, you'll see many times people don't lean forward enough. So, the potential for accelerating forward is limited.

    I often use the analogy of 100m sprint starting position: is it faster to stand upright for maximum acceleration or lean forward?

    IMGM6329.jpg

    IMGM6330.jpg

    IMGM6331.jpg

    IMGM6332.jpg
     
  2. orangenetic

    orangenetic Regular Member

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    Well in lower level play, they wouldn't need to quickly get to the center of the court since the play won't be as fast.

    Yes, that position would be faster for recovering to center court.(Just like a frog jumping forward)

    But I think that position is a very natural position to do when landing from a jump rather than a postion made from moving back to the center of the court.

    1. When you jump back and land, your weight leans back because of newton's first law. So you'd have to naturally lean forward to stop your body from falling back.

    2. When you land you naturally bend your back from when your feet touches the ground. This is a natural act when you try to reduce impact from landing.

    So my conclusion is, that leaning forward postion is a natural postion made from landing from a high jump. Not a position made purposly for moving quicker. (Also that position can be made because you want to stay as low as possible)

    I'm no physics expert so these are just some personal thoughts :)
     
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Err, how often have you seen people not able to move to the front of court the fast enough. Have you seen people lurch forward and then take the shuttle late?



    Try filming yourself, slow motion it and draw angles of axes;)



    I wouldn't have posted this if everybody did it "naturally" ;)
     
  4. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    what that sequence of photos shows is the smooth combination of landing from a smash, combined with the recovery towards the front court to intercept a weak reply... especially seen in singles play

    in doubles, there's not as much urgency to get to the front as your partner is hopefully ready to intercept
     
  5. jak nam

    jak nam Regular Member

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    perhaps both cheung and orange can take pictures of themselves in similar recovery positions to provide some comparison to swh.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Actually, I used to train this a lot of the time. That's why I put the post up ;)
     
  7. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    lean forward! Yes, do it even after a high clear, awaiting your opponent's response (not just hunting for the net response).

    Warning - very tiring posture - but very quick.
     
  8. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    I watched Zhao Jianhua-Xiao jie's video before and Zhao said to straighten the left leg and bend the right after the smash. I don't know if body posture was mentioned
     
  9. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    Nice photos Cheung.

    As someone said above, it's probably more often applied in singles than in doubles but there are times when you need to follow the shuttle into the net or if you're far out of position in doubles that this will help too...

    I would take two main points from this, the leaning forward of the body which Cheung has pointed out but also keeping low whilst doing this. Look how squatted down he is following the stroke.

    Another smaller point that I see some players fail to do is to have their leading foot pointing in the direction they are moving towards - again just as a sprinter would...
     
  10. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    It's not tiring if you manage to get behind the shuttle well enough.
     
  11. orangenetic

    orangenetic Regular Member

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    Oh yes......I've seen many people like that. I call those people "lazy" or "not interested in the match"
     
  12. orangenetic

    orangenetic Regular Member

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    This is kind of what i'm tryna say....
     
  13. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

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    I'd say it's more general than that.

    Regardless of doubles/singles, the shot you've played & the response, you are always going to move forward from deep in the rear-court. Therefore, the player knows that they can put their weight forward after the shot to get the best recovery to base.

    Leaning in the direction of acceleration (not necessarily velocity) uses body-weight to counter-act the moment coming from the thrust on the court. The horizontal thrust from the shoe/court reaction is below the players center-of-gravity, thus will try and make the player lean backwards. By leaning forwards, the vertical reaction from the shoes/court produces an (hopefully) equal and opposite moment to keep the player stable.

    It's the same as motorcycles leaning into a turn.

    I would therefore presume that the player will become more upright as they move towards their base position (and they start to decelerate).
     
  14. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Thanks. Did Zhao's suggestion mean to be for left handed players?
     
  15. orangenetic

    orangenetic Regular Member

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    This is what I meant by

    "1. When you jump back and land, your weight leans back because of newton's first law. So you'd have to naturally lean forward to stop your body from falling back."

    .....not sure if it's related to Newton's first law. Seemed so.
     
  16. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    i wonder if the pros are thinking about it that way...or rather just train to get from there to there as quick as possible...and when a human does this it looks like on the pictures^^

    i dont see how a lazy or slow person is helped by thinking of what to do because of newtons laws and bodyweight counteract while jumping :rolleyes:
     
  17. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    look at the pictures...you may find an answer :rolleyes:

    better not do it the wrong way as it could end up very painful :p
     
  18. orangenetic

    orangenetic Regular Member

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    Lazy people probably won't even get there in time, or they would just jump up vertically and jump down in the same spot.(Which would lead to a flat smash since they don't even get behind the shuttle)

    If they do actually jump backwards and land and try to get to the center of court as fast as they can, i'm assuming they would have to do the position we're discussing about. (Not the full position but at least something like it)

    If you see in old Tom&Jerry or any comic animations, when they run(with a circle as their running feet) and come to a sudden stop, they all lean backwards to prevent falling forwards.
     
  19. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    lol nice one [MENTION=58615]TOM&JERRY[/MENTION] :D

    youre confirming my standpoint, that its in the nature itself...imho there is no need to teach such natural things in such a detail....

    maybe im overestimating the people out there..but for me...i dont think about where to lean when moving into a certain direction..nor did i ever had to
    who needs to learn such things should better play chess or whatever but not a moving sport competatively
     
  20. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I think you have missed the point - nobody who does this movement properly thinks about it - they don't have to! They have already learnt to do it (whether through lots of practice, or being taught, or observation...)

    To say that people shouldn't bother with a sport because not every aspect of it came naturally to them is a little harsh. Sometimes, there are bits of your game you know are wrong, but you haven't fixed yet. Sometimes, having someone point out what might be wrong is helpful. Hence, Cheungs thread and his pictures. Its intended to be interesting for those who can do it, and helpful for those who can't.

    You criticising the people who haven't figured it out yet is a little harsh, don't you think? We were all beginners once!

    The thing I want to draw attention to for everyone, is how FAR in front of his body Son Wan Ho took the shuttle. His arm was probably at about 45 degrees in angle at contact (given the first picture) - that is really getting behind the shuttle!
     

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