Badminton Swivel Clamp require for first knot of crosses.

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by Dr.Strange, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. Dr.Strange

    Dr.Strange Regular Member

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    Hey everyone,

    I've been stringing tennis racquets for quite some time and I'm now doing more and more badminton racquets. My current clamps are tennis swivel clamps and I need 1 badminton swivel clamp as I do the first knot on the crosses. The tennis clamp spreads the springs out and looks bad on the string. I used to knot first without clamping and pulling against the grommet, but the knot often pulls through and I've had string breakage. I started clamping down the first cross and knotting behind the clamp and so now the string is not pulling through.

    Two things:

    1. Am I doing something wrong with the first knot on the crosses?
    2. If the latter of the techniques is best I would like a badminton swivel clamp instead of using my tennis clamp. I can't find a solid, well priced clamp besides one stored that charges an arm and a leg for shipping (EAGNAS). I'm in Canada by the way. Clamp is $49 or $69 and shipping is $29!

    Thoughts, tips, suggestions? I'll take what you have!

    Thanks in advance!

    Steve
     
  2. johnlowe88

    johnlowe88 Regular Member

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    I think one problem may be your starting knot. The starting knot should never pull through into the grommet since it is usually larger than the grommet hole. I use a three loop starting knot, then I put a starting clamp onto the end of the knot when I pull the first cross, this keeps the knot in the right place.

    The other problem might be where the starting knot is situated. However this can be dictated by the racquet where the wide grommet is, but usually with Yonex, it is 6 grommets from the T. Some racquets use the 7th grommet, and this can pull through if the grommet is wider than usual. I don't have a racquet on my machine so can't take a photo of my starting knot for you, but will do so when I have the opportunity.

    The third problem may be that your tennis clamp could be too tight and is damaging the string, if it crimps the string - or it might have to be too tight so that it doesn't slip, which is not good. I find that tennis clamps with the diamond coating tend to grip better with less damage, but now I use a universal clamp that will do both and holds the string well without damage and I can go up to 37lbs, with adjustment of course.
     
  3. Dr.Strange

    Dr.Strange Regular Member

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    Thanks for the detailed response John. I am using the following diagram in the link for the ArcSaber 10. Perhaps I should consider put in a smaller grommet? Just to reconfirm. IT IS OK that I pull against the grommet? This is best practice or 'standard' rather? I did just buy a badminton specific clamp and this has helped, but I'd still prefer to knot against the grommet like I do with Tennis racquets, at your opinion that is.
     
  4. Dr.Strange

    Dr.Strange Regular Member

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    https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=...kuJcTX-O92KpYvZEFm-av39g&ust=1424265676418933
     
  5. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Yes, it is absolutely standard practice to use a starting knot tied around a main string, so that the cross string is tensioned against the grommet and held in place because the knot is too fat to fit through.

    Some people prefer to use a fixed clamp to start the crosses, and then later tie off the starting end just like a mains string tie-off. But this is pretty uncommon.
     
  6. _Rav_

    _Rav_ Regular Member

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    I use a starting clamp (no fixed clamps on my machine) and then re-pull the string that i started with before clamping normally and tying off. Only time i use a starting knot is if the top cross is so high that i struggle to get a clamp in there and have little room left to tie off.

    If i had fixed clamps i would probably do it in much the same way, pulling again before clamping and tying off.
     
  7. Dr.Strange

    Dr.Strange Regular Member

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    Thanks Gollum,

    I was tying it later with a fixed clamp, but it's so much quick and there is less loss of tension when pulling the knot against the grommet. Thanks for the reassurance!
     
  8. Dr.Strange

    Dr.Strange Regular Member

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    Thanks Rav,

    The spacing was VERY tight with the tennis clamp I was using for that exact process and it was tough to do properly. Now that I have a badminton clamp (significantly small) I have some extra space. I have also been pull the first 2 crosses lbs heavier to make up for tension loss.
     
  9. johnlowe88

    johnlowe88 Regular Member

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    I think that the general rule is to find and use a starting knot that is sufficiently large that will not pull through the grommet. Unfortunately there is also no agreement about what starting knot to use, but there are a number which was based on the common tennis starting knot. I was using a much more complicated knot to start with, then migrated to a three loop one which I now use all the time.

    Let me see if I can describe it. It basically starts off the same way as a half-hitch - on the left side of the racquet.

    String goes through through the grommet on the right of the main string, up then on the left, and down the left and through the loop. Don't pull the loop tight - string goes down on the right, round the back again and through the loop on the left, coming up, then around then again down the right, and around through the loop again. Three circles effectively.

    To tighten, hold the end, then pull the long string - which should tighten down a bit, leaving two small loops, then pull the end. It should form a snug knot which holds onto the main string but is big enough that it doesn't pull through, at least on most racquets.

    I will try to take a photo, since the picture is worth a thousand words.
     
  10. johnlowe88

    johnlowe88 Regular Member

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    Here you go, I put a racquet on the machine, and just put in a few mains to demonstrate.

    DSC03816.jpg DSC03817.jpg

    This starting knot is used by others on the forum, and is easy to use. Once it is tightened, I put a starting clamp onto the end, just to hold it up, and that helps it stay in place, when I tension the first cross. The other thing to look out for, especially since you are a tennis stringer, is that the racquet should be mounted so that the fixed clamps can clamp onto the strings without hitting the side support arms or the top and bottom heads - where possible. With floating clamps this is not a problem except for the first cross. I generally use fixed clamps all the time, and only need to resort to floating clamps when I do BabolaT racquets that require starting in the middle with six cross strings, then finish the other end, before continuing.
     
  11. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Nice one, John - I used this one on all the rackets last week and it worked a treat. Tail sits nice and flat against the frame.

    You can always add a third loop if you think it'll fall through with two.
     
  12. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Thanks John, I shall have to try that knot. Looks good! :)
     
  13. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Here's a picture of it under a 32 lb direct pull - the grommet is enormous, btw:

    sk.jpg
     
  14. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Hang on. I'm confused.

    That knot looks really similar to a Parnell knot. What is the difference? From tracing it, I see:

    • Make a half-hitch
    • Go back under the anchor string
    • Come up through the half-hitch

    ...which I thought was a Parnell knot?
     
  15. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Oh, wait...

    I thought the string passed over the anchor string before completing the half-hitch.

    Looking closer, I think the string passes under the anchor string before completing the half-hitch.
     
    #15 Gollum, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  16. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    ^This.

    half-hitch to the outside,
    under the anchor,
    up through the outside of the hitch,
    (under the anchor and up through the outsides of both hitches, if needed).

    Virtually the opposite of a Parnell (which is half-hitch, over the anchor, and up through the inside of the hitch).
     
  17. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Thanks Mark, that will help when I try it out. :)
     
  18. johnlowe88

    johnlowe88 Regular Member

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    Anyway, it doesn't matter what it is called - all I can say is that I somehow found this knot either on the internet or from somewhere else, and have been using it for the past couple of years without problems, even on large grommets. With this starting knot, I have strung for a couple of people at 35 lbs.
     
  19. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    I finally got around to using this knot. It worked well -- really bulky, and quite easy to understand with a bit of practice. Thanks John. :)
     
  20. Unholy Racketeer

    Unholy Racketeer New Member

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    I was taught to use a starting clamp to hold the tail of the string against the outside of the frame when pulling the first and a few subsequent crosses. In fact you can finish the crosses, tie off and then go back and re-pull the tail, clamping it then using a swivel clamp or a flying clamp, then tie it off on your chosen main string. For a time I stopped doing that and just pulled the first cross against the knot, but I had a few cases of the knot disappearing into the grommet and a couple of times the string broke because it was cut by the knot as it slid, so I have gone back to doing it this, the "proper" way. By the way, I was also taught that the tie-off of the cross should be on the first "corner" of a main, such that if the knot moves it can't slip far. If you tie off on the second "corner" of a main string, the knot could slip through the grommet and along the outside of the racket, stopping only when it reaches the first "corner" where the main string disappears back into the racket. It would only be the "bigness" of the knot which might stop it slipping through the grommet. You'd be unlucky for that to happen, but it is still good practice to tie off at the first "corner".
     

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