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04-17-2004, 11:09 PM #1
BadmintonWarehouse.com/ Victor/ outdoor questions net from noob
Hello. I'm thinking about getting into the sport, starting with buying a net that I can set up in my yard for playing this spring/summer and buying a nice racquet to start out with. I have a lot of friends who also became addicted to badminton in only the ~30 minutes a day that we get to play in PE for the duration of the unit. Anyways, I did some research and one of the first badminton stores that I found was badmintonwarehouse.com. It looks like a pretty good professional job, plus they're maybe 30 miles max away from me, so in case I need any service it shouldn't be hard. Has anyone had any experiance with this store? Good/bad?
Anyways, what got me a little nervous about them is that they push Victor REALLY hard. They have the complete lineup that can be found on Victor's German website (which is strangely extremely different the lineup that can be found on Victor N.A's poor excuse for a website.) badmintonwarehouse.com always has Victor first on the page, on top of the other brands. They refer to them as the "BMWs of badminton racquets", and offer models from $16 to $140. They package Victor racquets with all the starter kits that they sell too.
Anyways it just got me a little suspicious because Victor isn't even listed on the review section of this website and references to the brand on the forum usually refer to them as lower-end models for beginners and people wanting something that they can bang up, not something that could go head to head with a top-end Yonex or Carlton. Is this true? Is anyone familiar with Victor's German lineup, the models that badmintonwarehouse.com seems to be selling, like their "Magan" high-end line or even their less expensive ones?
I did a search but there honestly wasn't much victor-related discussion.
Finally, what product would you guys recommend for a an outoor badminton court? I know that its primarily an indoor sport, but I really just want to be able to play with my friends whenever I feel like it. I know from trial that everything sold at sportmart etc is crap, but are there any kits that come to mind as being durable, regulation size, and high quality? I know that badmintonwarehouse.com is selling a kit by Victor for posts and net for $23, but it looks just as crappy and if the poles arent gonna stand up straight or are going to get nocked over in the wind then I might be better off building my own net posts with stuff from a hardware store and buying a Vinyl net online (or something like that).
Anway, thanks for all the help
04-18-2004, 12:24 AM #2
Don't have much time, and just had a quick skim, but I can guarantee you that Victor is a reputable brand, and you shouldn't have many problems with them. I've never tried the German lineup before though, since all the ones in Asia are from Taiwan, but I don't think they should be inferior in anyway. Hope you enjoy the game and welcome to the boards
04-18-2004, 01:01 AM #3
Victor is a big company who makes LOTs of badminton racquets, shoes, grips, strings, nets, boards, bags, shuttles, shirts, pants......etc.
I would say Victor is a reputable brand, as there are tons of people using it in Asia. If you say Yonex is NO.1 in badminton world, then I will have to tell you that Victor is No.2 for sure.
04-18-2004, 01:17 AM #4
I trust you guys for sure, but its just so hard to get a good idea of a comparison between different racquets for me because there are really more than a dozen big companies, all with big lineups of all kinds of different racquets. For example, how can I compare the Victor Magan SQ1000 ($125) vs a Yonex MP99 (~$190) in terms of characteristics? Is there a website? Its pretty much impossible to compare using manufacturer specs as its all loaded down with marketing bullcrap. Is there a website? I know that this website has a lot of reviews, and a lot of reviews for Yonex racquets, but none for Victors. Not that I was considering spending that much on a racquet anyway, but just as an example of what I am asking: how can a make an accurate comparison between all these racquets from so many manufacturers?
Also, anyone have any experiance with outdoor nets? How about badmintonwarehouse.com?
04-18-2004, 02:02 AM #5Originally Posted by tuna1
For Yonex rackets, one of the reasons they are so expensive is the marketing. Their marketing strategies and along with the $ they spent at AD, make their product become so expensive.
Victor is probably trying to catch up with Yonex with less price on the tag to attract more customers. So, a $125 Victor racket doesn't mean that it will be bad or worse than a $190 Yonex racket. You really have to find someone trust-worthy who have tried those rackets you want to compare, or you have to try them yourself, in order to find your answers.
04-18-2004, 04:33 AM #6Originally Posted by bluejeff
04-18-2004, 05:22 AM #7Originally Posted by taneepak
IMO, marketing and R&D are significant additional costs to the selling price. Manufacturing cost comes down once they produced enough number of products... basic economy of scale. So it doesn't take much to manufacture racquets, but more are being spent to make them known.
04-18-2004, 12:07 PM #8Originally Posted by taneepak
Do you think AD cost no money at all? (Yes/No question)
Obviously, AD cost money, and probably cost more money than you can imagine. Remember Yonex have all kinds of sponsorships on players, that's AD and that's money. Yonex holds open games, and that's money. And further more, guess what, in Japan, Yonex do have TV commercials, and I guess that should at least cost some money. All of those you think are free? Think twice.
04-18-2004, 12:14 PM #9
Another you might want to know is, in real world, companies tend to spend 2X money on AD than manufactoring. What's so good about making good products, but can NOT sell it. AD often cost more than 2X of manufactoring than manufactoring.
A great example:
Do you know how much it cost to make a Nokia 8860 Phone?
Fact: Much Less than 500NT/each (or $15USD)
AD for it: More than Millions, considering Nokia commercials are nearly everywhere. Seen superbowl? there you go, 2 millions are gone. ....etc.
Price: more than $300+ USD (at least) in major markets I know of.
04-18-2004, 12:21 PM #10
Another excellent example would be the culturally phenomenal Coca-cola. They are selling sweetened water basically, and yet they spend millions on marketing.
Originally Posted by bluejeff
04-18-2004, 01:36 PM #11
Marketing expenses can be figured into retail price because people react to marketing by either thinking that they want the product because its better than others (if that was the goal of the marketing) or because its cooler than other products. A great example is Nike- the reason that they can put $3 in parts, labor, and R&D into a shoe and then sell it for $120 is because there are a lot of people who just won't wear anything but Nike, no matter the cost, because its "cool". Their ads are everywhere, in every sport magazine, on mainstream TV, they practically sponsor the top few players in every sport that they make equipment for, etc.
So I'd definately believe that Yonex is slightly "overpriced" (in comparison to brands that make similar quality racquets) because they spend a lot on marketing. However, its definately working for them, because despite Yonex being the most expensive racquet, it seems like half the people on this site use them. You can't even get a review for 70% of the racquets in production, but every single Yonex has several.
04-18-2004, 03:14 PM #12Originally Posted by cappy75
04-18-2004, 03:20 PM #13Originally Posted by bluejeff
04-18-2004, 03:46 PM #14Originally Posted by bigredlemon
04-18-2004, 03:54 PM #15Originally Posted by bigredlemon
Victor makes pretty much everything in Badminton, and the reason I think they are #2 just based on the overall.
Carlton-> no enough of products to make them #2.
MMOA->lots of products, but only popular in TW, far away from #2.
Karakal->OK, but the same reason as Carlton, not enough of products.
BK, Alpha, Ashaway, Winex, are all nice companies, but just falls short comparing to Victor.
Is there any others might come close to #2 spot besides Victor?
PS: for the No.2 spot, you have to at least making rackets, shuttles, strings, shoes, grips, court equipments, bags, clothes, and sponserships on players to qualify. (Otherwise people would think, That No.2 company doens't even make badminton shoes )
04-18-2004, 04:56 PM #16
Gosen might be No.2
04-18-2004, 05:06 PM #17
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