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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Default Its all in the wrists?

    Having watched a few tournaments lately and watching some vintage videos (Zhao,Rudy, Yang Yang,Poul Erik),I seem to come to the conclusion
    that past players use more wristwork than present.

    Also comparing Yonekura with Jun Jae Youn, Jun plays with her wrists but Yonekura is very stiff and more of a runner like Roslin, Chen Hong,etc.

    I think why Taufik, Mia, Gade, Lin Dan, Bao,Hafiz, etc excel is because

    of wrtistwork. other things being equal. Better wristwork could translate into more disguise and deception and more variety in racquet skills and strokes.

    Anyone thinks the same?

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    Deception was always described as "a flick of the wrist", so yes!

    It is an older way of playing which did not rely on supreme fitness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn
    Better wristwork could translate into more disguise and deception and more variety in racquet skills and strokes.

    Anyone thinks the same?
    Very true....helps a lot with deception...against me

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    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    Sadly, wristwork to me is quite specific as I only use it a lot where fitnesse shots are concerned such as net, drops etc. When I home in to power, the wrist becomes hardened and stiff.

    And it's true though, deception comes from the wrist as one former Kelantanese (a state in Malaysia) told me once, "You change the direction of shuttle flight using the wrist, not the body".

    I once did a 'delay' at the net by letting the shuttle drop some half a second longer, and pulling it to the back when the opponent was expecting a net tumble and all that was involved was the wrist and timing. But deception should also include body language as part of the parcel alongside a loose wrist, I say.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Default -

    I think the other face of disguise and deception is the overhead stroke for executing lobs, drops (whats that, rarely used today for some reason),and smashes.
    Some players use the same arm action then at last moment tiurn their wrists eg Ra amd Kim.Others chop the shuttles (eg. Xie Xin Fang).

    I think players dont like to use deceptive shots as they are afraid to perform errors in the mould of Li Ling Wei or Ye Zhao Ying and prefer to play safe shots to slowly grind down opponents.

    I mention this after watching Taufik toy with Ng Wei or Wu Yu Yong (products of China's endless supply of players).Taufik was using them to try out some new trick shots (arrogant?).

    Or maybe players dare not be too clever to be on the safe side(from coaches)I think deception in singles play can be quite useful when the situation demands.

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    i think deception and the confidence to play deceptive shots, which are always risky and involve taking the shuttle later than is ideal , develop with experience - since most of todays singles players are 'old in the tooth' by the time they are 25 they never get the time to develop the deceptive shots. we are only now seeing them in the likes of Gade, who is, i think, in his prime, he may not be as fit or as strong as some of the younger players, but he has experience, and a wide range of deceptive returns which give him an extra edge.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Default -

    Wonder if it would be better to intersprese Opens with Masters tours where

    a select few are invited to play round-robin.

    Maybe then audiences would be able to see more skills displayed instead of

    the commercial fixed menu game plyed in exhaustting opens

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    Prakash Padukone used to be a wrist master. Has this filtered through to current Indian Players?

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Interesting Prakash.

    In 1980 Ae Liem Swie King was all at sea agaist Prakash,

    Rudy Hartono coped well though as his style was similar to Prakash and more but Rudy lost on fitness.

    Then in 1981 World Cup Han Jian struggled lost 15-0, 18-16 !After that Han Jian seldom beat Prakash, Liem Swie did and Luan Jin continued to beat Prakask using pure speed and power.

    After Prakash burst on the scene many players like Misbun adopted some of his techniques.

    I suspect even players like Yang Yang or Zhao could have learnt sth from him.

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    I was watching some old games, and I noticed the similar things. Also, some new age people really rely on their smashes much more than consistency or neatness as old players.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    The best example of superior techniques over pure speed and power can be seen in recent Ra Kyun Min/Kim Dong Moon vs Zhang Jun/Gao Ling encounters. Also Taufik vs Chen Hong.

    It s like matador vs Bull.

    I think all this will become apparent in Tcup when China play Ina, for an hr or so the ina will play like demons, excelling the speed and power of others.

    I dont totally agree that Young players dont have deception or good technques, Lin Dan ,Bao Cun Lai, Zhao, Yang Yang all had them when they started early.

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    I agree that wrist is one of the keys in badminton, but I disagree that the new generation use less wrist, I think they combine their writs with power and speed. But their wrist is still very powerful.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejeff
    I was watching some old games, and I noticed the similar Thomas Cup things. Also, some new age people really rely on their smashes much more than consistency or neatness as old players.
    If you are refering to 1982 Thomas cup, observe Chen Chang Jie,

    how many players today can match his jumping smashes, his net interceptions and fitness ? Yet Liem Swie King thrashed him, so would Rudy Hartono if they had met in 1982.

    I think Chen didin't take his game 1 echelon higher, he never won any GP tour.

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    Interestingly I observed this debate yesterday as I was about to leave the gym.

    Two games were playing. Both were men double. One was with 3 seniors and a young man, the other was with 3 middle age men and a late twenty somthing man.

    The senior players used a lot of deception shots and I saw much of the skills were from their wrists. They hit sharp angle, cross court, tight to the net shots. They only smashed to end the rallies.

    Meanwhile, the other game had lots more smashes and power shots that focused on brute strenght.

    My guess is that as a player gets older, the power game decreases so deception and precision shots are choosen to compensate as well as to reserve energy.

    A good example of this is Andre Agassi and Pete Samprass. Andre is know for his rally, presicion and tatical style of play, with which enables him to have a long career. Pete on the other hand was a power game. His game declined as his power decreased. Can't compare to Andy Roddic with his 140Mp serves. pete is now retired.

    As for which one is better, I think it depends on how well the players execute the game plans.

    Ti_Kon

    Now I have questions, how do you improve your wrist skills? Are there certain trainnings that will help? What are some basic tips one must remember when executing wrist shots?
    Last edited by Ti_kon; 05-01-2004 at 01:46 AM.

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    Found the link to my questions.

    Ti_Kon

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    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default

    gotta bring back this interesting thread.

    Bbn i think when you say wrist, it is more a general mechanism. in fact the deceptive component also involves a lot of subtle finger movements. in fact, i think the finger movement contributes equally to the deceptive element of the shot as wrist.

    i do envy the very very few players in the gym who have both a powerful as well as agile wrist. not many do, but the ones who does, they are a joy to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti_kon
    My guess is that as a player gets older, the power game decreases so deception and precision shots are choosen to compensate as well as to reserve energy.
    I suppose that's generally true, but those of us who learned to play in the old days of wooden frames and stainless steel shafts were taught that the smash was reserved for finishing off the rally when you got a short lift.

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