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Thread: Its all in the wrists?
05-26-2004, 01:05 PM #18
One of my coaches once gave me an explaination I quite like:
If you channel all the power of your body, you'll get the same amount of work done without any effort. Given that a player clears correctly, they should be able to clear from one end of the court to the other. I think the whole body motion (even if you don't, at least make sure you're not screwing up yourself by moving your arm left and your foot right).
Despite that I think my most powerful shot comes from my wrist. It can generate, if neccessary, the same drive as a full sideways swing of the arm. And it's definately neccessary for the surprise shots.
I think it's still importance to balance out the muscles though. I find my shots a lot more smooth when I can get my entire body to basically participate in the shot because of the power your entire body has. But definately, I enjoy the wrist shots - they are the key element to deseption.
05-28-2004, 03:38 AM #19
I am sure this has been discussed at length before. It is not helpful to rely on feedback from your own body to decide what is actually happening though a shot. If professional players technique is examined in slow motion there will be very little active wrist movement, the same goes for tennis players when they serve. Video shows that te key arm movement is the pronation of the forearm, not a deliberate movement of the wrist.
If you start from a good position and apply the force correctly the arm will move through the shot naturally and the wrist will snap through impact. The important factor here is shoulder and arm relaxaton. Try hitting a few clears from your hip, dangle the arm losely by your side and feel the hip start the motion, the results are quite profound.
Following this logic, though, (i.e. if your body is telling you that you are using one joint when you are really using the next one up) it makes sense that when people think they are using their fingers they are propbably gathering power mainly from their wrist.
In terms of deception, their is a great article by Martin Dew at badders.com
05-28-2004, 04:41 AM #20
Anyone who thinks that modern players aren't deceptive should try playing against one. To be deceptive you often need to be in a position to apply any shot (attacking options) , modern players ar so much faster they have this option all the time. Look at a great past player like Zhao who played an occasional underarm turned net reply to the short serve with deception for a winner.
Modern players like Gade are taking that short singles serve above the hand at the net and flicking to the back or hitting down or playing a held net shot. You simply don't have time in the modern game to let the shuttle drop low and play a floated shot to the net.
05-30-2004, 02:26 AM #21
Originally Posted by dlp
05-31-2004, 12:31 PM #22
I think my smash is hardest when I flick my wrist, and my wrist is relaxed, not stiff. The shuttle pops off the racket literally..
I've tried just swinging the racket as if it is a baseball bat...it does not work well.
I tend to flick a little too much sometimes when I drive/clear. My opponent ends up dodging it
10-02-2005, 11:40 PM #23
This thread is important ... yet it died out.There are very useful informations in here.
10-03-2005, 06:19 PM #24
Originally Posted by Surreal
04-17-2006, 06:39 AM #25
Originally Posted by SurrealIts all in the wrists
Yes this thread can be very useful for beginners... so I am bringing it back. And I hope it will not dry out too quickly because there are so many very useful information here.
Because the badminton racket is so light, we can play the game with our wrist. We do not need to rely on just arm strength to play badminton.
So, to be able to have good wristwork, I am stating here some points based on my experience/thoughts;
- You should have a very loose grip. By this I mean...”Do not grip your racket handle too tight”. By having a loose grip, you should have a very relaxed wrist. You don't lock up your wrist.
- With a very relaxed grip, you should be able to snap or to turn your wrist just at the point of impact with the shuttle. So you can change direction of your shot(to anywhere) at the point of impact.
- With good wristwork, you can wrong-foot your opponent. This will cause the shuttle to fall on your opponent's court when he/she is rushing to some other locations of the court.
- Good wristwork can also help you to spin the shuttle better during net-shots. For if you can spin and tumble the shuttle when you do a net-shot, you can cause some degree of difficulties for your opponent to return that shot.
- Good wristwork can also increase power to your power shots, such as the smashes, clears, lifts, etc... Just imagine.... if your arm swing is going at 100 miles per hour, and your wrist swing is going at 25 miles per hour in the same direction, the resultant swing should be at 125 miles per hour.
- etc, etc...
There are many other reasons for us to use wristwork. And I will allow other Badminton Central Members to contribute to this subject matter.
May we all enjoy Badminton better as we learn more about it.
04-17-2006, 08:30 AM #26
but using the wrist is less consistent so when doing more basic shots like lifts and defensive shots the forearm is used. this is because when you use the wrist for power you r trying to extract a lot of energy from a very small part of the body meaning that you can't control it very well. while u might b able to get away with it in training trying to execute an accurate controlled shot with the wrist in high pressure situations is not so easy.
04-17-2006, 10:32 AM #27
Originally Posted by chris@ccc
In sprinting, for example, runners whose heels touch the ground lose energy on each stride, whereas those whose lower legs act as a static-spring will be able to fully transfer the power from their hips. It's a matter of reactive strength, the ability to quickly generate an internal force in the muscles and tendons in reaction to an external force. For the legs this ability is usually developed using plyometric exercises.
When I was practising drive some time ago, I realized that drives can be thought of as a plyometric drill. After doing drives for some time, I find that there is an additional crispness to all my strokes, and that this effect is greatest when I practice drives with a player who has strong drives.
04-17-2006, 05:25 PM #28
Originally Posted by fast3r
I agree with you when you stated that "using the wrist is less consistent".
But I am not saying that we just play with the wrist and with nothing else. The arm should be the main swing. The wrist only come into play just at the last moment, ie just at the point of impact with the shuttle.
A good backhand overhead clear is one of the hardest strokes to perform. This stroke starts with an arm swing and right at point of impact, the wrist snaps.
Most good players perform this stroke well without any follow-through of the arm(after the point of impact). This shows how much power(the explosive power) can be generated from the wrist.
You also stated "when you use the wrist for power you r trying to extract a lot of energy from a very small part of the body meaning that you can't control it very well"... Yes, this is also true. Only with much practise that you can perform this difficult overhead backhand clear.
But don't be discouraged if you cannot get it. Even top International Players find this stroke very hard to perform. And for those who cannot perform this stroke well, they have to run under the shuttle(in their backhand corner) to perform their forehand overhead stroke. And there is nothing wrong in doing it that way. In fact, there is an added advantage if you do a forehand overhead clear in your backhand corner... this is because your body and face are in the direction facing your opponent when you execute your shot.
04-17-2006, 05:52 PM #29
Originally Posted by chris@ccc
No, no, no! It's not the "wrist snap" that creates the power.
As Slanter observed earlier in this thread, the power is actually generated from forearm rotation (supination for backhands). The wrist movement is relaxed, and merely allows the energy from the forearm to be transferred into the racket head. Any attempt to interfere with the forearm motion, either by "snapping" the wrist deliberately or by holding the wrist rigid, will cause a loss of power.
This term "wrist snap" is vague and pernicious. It means different things to different people. Please, let us be precise with our description of techniques.
The wrist is a joint. There are only four possible wrist movements:
- Flexion: like curling a dumbell.
- Extension: the opposite of flexion.
- Radial deviation: like "shaking hands" from the wrist; upwards direction.
- Ulnal deviation: same, but downwards direction.
What many players perceive as "wrist snap" is actually forearm rotation: supination or pronation. For backhands, you pronate the forearm in preparation and then hit with a supinating movement; for forehands the reverse.
I don't know about other countries, but here in the UK the coaching syllabus and coach education materials are moving away from these vague terms such as "wrist snap". The revised Badminton England coaching materials make explicit use of the terms "pronate the forearm" and "supinate the forearm". The Badminton England techniques DVD gives extremely clear and unambiguous advice on how to use forearm rotation to create power.
Some people believe that, as coaches, we should hide this information from our players. They say that it will only confuse the players.
I say they are patronising their players and witholding their coaching knowledge. Give players the truth, even if it is a little more technical than "wrist snap". Because if we don't, then this sort of nonsense will continue to propagate and yet more players will learn ineffective techniques.
Last edited by Gollum; 04-17-2006 at 05:57 PM.
04-17-2006, 09:28 PM #30
Originally Posted by GollumHi Gollum,
Yes, I didn't go into the detail of skeletal/muscular movement, etc... And you might ask “How can you inform players then?”.
But I have to say this again... I am not saying that we play with just the wrist and with nothing else. I hope that everyone will not think it that way.
The arm should be the main swing. The wrist only come into play just at the last moment, ie just at the point of impact with the shuttle.
In my post, I was trying to inform the player about the “thinking process” rather than on the detail mechanism of the stroke. I was saying “think that your last action to be at the wrist”.
When I talk about playing Badminton, I usually talk about the “Art of Playing Badminton”.
I know it is very difficult to explain in words. Demonstration is the best way when it comes to teaching the Arts, examples are; how to dance, how to draw and paint, how to play the piano, etc... My music teacher always told me to relax my wrist. And as you said “It means different things to different people”. Of course, I told my teacher “Please demonstrate what you mean”.
Your information is good. A lot of scientific knowledge is given, such as, how to explicitly "pronate the forearm" and "supinate the forearm", etc...
And your post actually informs everyone that if the reader goes out to try some stroke after reading a post, that reader could be doing something very different from what the writer meant to say.
So, readers beware... “GO AND GET A PROPER COACH”.
04-17-2006, 10:08 PM #31
Originally Posted by stumblingfeetHi stumblingfeet
I do not know much about plyometric exercises.
But what you posted reminded me of the drive. And a drive uses quite a lot of wrist at the last moment.
When you punch someone's face, you clench your fist. You lock up your wrist. There is little wristwork in a punch.
But when you slap someone's face, you do it with an open palm with a relaxed wrist. And this is the wristwork message that I am trying to convey.
Doing a drive(I mean a horizontal drive from your left or right side of you court) is similar to slapping the shuttle. Swing the arm, and at the moment of impact, slap at the shuttle. This will generate more power in your drive.
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