Why don't top double players lift to the edge of the court?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by SSSSNT, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Here
    example:

    [video=youtube;TOxNOa-yZJ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOxNOa-yZJ4[/video]

    When they do lift the shuttle, they usually lift it about 3/4th - 4/5th of the court width. Why don't they lift it nearer to the left/right edge?
     
  2. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    298
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    It's risk vs. reward.

    Especially with a high, defensive lift, the reward is too small. Yes, it's better to lift to the corner rather than the middle, but the difference between "most of the way to the corner" and "right in the corner" is not that great.

    Whereas the risk of hitting it out becomes rapidly greater the closer you go to the corner.

    When defending a smash, it's especially difficult to play accurate lifts. It's much more important to get the shuttle close to the back line than close to the side line. Even this is difficult under pressure, and you will often see players hit the shuttle out the back.

    With an attacking lift, it's a bit different. It can sometimes be worth aiming very close to the corner, because it can mean the difference between your opponent intercepting the lift and not.
     
    #2 Gollum, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,853
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    For their courts, there can be some air currents that affect the shuttle making it drift out.
     
  4. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Here
    I can understand if it's "smash reply" or "most of the way to the corner". But it's not. It's nowhere even near the corner. Even when there's no pressure.

    Look at this sequence:

    [​IMG]

    Lifted twice under no pressure, both would've landed nowhere near left corner. I've got to think they do it deliberately.
     
  5. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    298
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    The first lift looks like hesitation on the low serve, maybe thinking it's going short. Even in women's doubles, I wouldn't expect such a passive return of low serve very often.

    The second lift looks like hesitation because her partner was moving in to attack the front, but then the drive got past her instead.

    In both cases the player is not quite in position, not quite ready for the shot.

    And while you say it's nowhere near the corner, it's still not too bad from a positional point of view. The question is, "have I lifted far away enough from the middle?", rather than "have I lifted close enough to the corner?".
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,853
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    It's a neutral lift. Plus, it's a forehand lift.

    Trying to lift up to the extreme backhand corner on that shot is a bit more error prone. The objective here is rallying around giving a safe shot and probing for an opportunity.
     
  7. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Here
    I think even I can lift more to the corner than that from that position and still be a safe shot.

    So both of you agree that there's no tactical advantage to be gained, only for safety reason? We can agree that a lift more to the corner is always more advantageous right? I'm trying to apply what the pros does to my game, but only those I can understand.
     
  8. Heong

    Heong Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,040
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Sydney
    Good thing is.

    By lifting to that position (between centre of court and edge), it is neutral. So you are not doing anything to your opponent, but neither your opponent could do anything harmful either.

    If you lift to the corner, it would leave no real benefit from the doubles if there is already a player at the back. You are just giving your opponents more angles (can smash straight down the line, cross court or towards centre).

    However, by lifting between the middle and edge, you are not giving away angles and defending shots from these positions become easier for you and your partner to cover. And once a better opportunity comes to counter attack (high/flat smash), then you can counter and follow up to attack.

    This would make smashing the right hip/shoulder a much better decision than to the line or middle which you might not have the angles for when receiving a neutral lift. Don't expect to win points, but you will have a good chance to counter attack - which is ultimately what you want by lifting.
     
  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,853
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Fair enough if you want to lift to the corner more and feel it can give you a tactical advantage.

    The higher the level you go, the more tactical it becomes. So many times, you would need to play the patient game.

    I agree the first lift is very neutral and slightly defensive,

    The second one I would probably play a lift to that area or the cross court - she chose the straight one. I would definitely not aim for the opponent's backhand corner area as a regular shot. It is a lot more prone to error to do consistently. Her partner can do but it still is going to be hard shot on the forehand lift.

    There is no tactical advantage but no tactical disadvantage. And no tactical disadvantage is important. Sometimes points are lost by trying to do too much.
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,853
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Yes. I failed to mention these points. Good answer.
     
  11. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Here
    Hey thanks man. So it is actually better to lift in between middle and edge vs more to the edge. To be honest I've never heard it before. No one ever teaches this.
     
  12. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    298
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    I don't think it makes a huge difference. If I had 100% accurate shots I would prefer the exact corner pretty much all the time. But no one has perfect accuracy, and you need to take the risk of hitting out into account.

    Yes, there are better attacking angles from the corner. This is an important consideration for singles defence. But for doubles, there are two defenders who can deal with angled shots relatively easily.

    By putting the attacker in or near the corner, you open up space on the opposite side of the court. You can use this space for counter-attacking shots. In other words, there are better attacking angles but also better defensive angles, and the latter tends to be more important in doubles.
     
  13. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    735
    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    England
    At a professional level, there is a lot to be said for consistency. As others mentioned, giving away angles by lifting towards the side of the court can be bad. However, many of these arenas have a left to right drift of more than 1 meter. That means, in order to get it to land on the line, you need to aim 1 metre out of the court, or into the court. The drift changes on each end, and based on your position in the hall, and based on how high the lift is, and how warm the room is. Hitting the lines is extremely risky in these situations.

    This is something I don't think enough people appreciate - the best players can get the shuttle in the court in spite of the drift. ALL the players can hit the lines when its in practice and there is no drift - thats what they have all trained to do - perfect shots in perfect conditions. Only the best can manage this in professional matches. Its what separates the good from the best - shuttle control!

    In this instance I agree with others- nothing is gained by going close to the corner, or lost by going closer to the middle - therefore it makes sense to play it safe. But just remember why you should play it safe in these huge venues - you may not have any idea where the shuttle will land.
     
  14. sh_shashi1

    sh_shashi1 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    India
    If the opponents are young and immature then lifting to corners would help as they tend to hit in net or out in trying to create angle. Tue more seasoned player you do not want to lift at all but if so then high and slightly cross to get back in defensive position .
     

Share This Page