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    Default forearm pronation

    browsed thru the forums used search.. but i still do not understand how do i pronate my forearm during the smash preparation... and how to use it... can someone please please kindly explain simply?
    thanks alot man

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    There are a lot of very technical and informed explanations of the mechanics of this technique on this site. The trouble is that they are hard to understand and they do not really help players to learn.

    A simple and overlooked fact is this: forearm pronation comes naturally as part of a good throwing action. The throwing action is a "whip".

    Some people feel that "snapping" or uncocking their wrist produces power. According to the technical studies, it appears that this is false. BUT when people *think* they are snapping their wrist, they are usually pronating their forearm.

    So in order to learn good forearm pronation, you should concentrate on using a good throwing action. Think how you would throw a cricket ball - it's the same action. A good practice is to try throwing shuttles over the net from the back of the court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum
    Some people feel that "snapping" or uncocking their wrist produces power. According to the technical studies, it appears that this is false. BUT when people *think* they are snapping their wrist, they are usually pronating their forearm.
    I would be really interested in reading some the 'technical studies' that you refer to. Can you point me in the right direction with some references?

    Also, how much do you think the smash preparation influences the power of the shot? (i.e. does quick supination followed by forearm pronation = greater power?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpie
    Also, how much do you think the smash preparation influences the power of the shot? (i.e. does quick supination followed by forearm pronation = greater power?)
    Probably, yes, as long as you keep the muscles fairly relaxed.
    Certainly better than supinate, hold, pronate.

    see also the badmintology website
    http://www.martinwells.com/Badmintology/index.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpie
    I would be really interested in reading some the 'technical studies' that you refer to. Can you point me in the right direction with some references?

    Also, how much do you think the smash preparation influences the power of the shot? (i.e. does quick supination followed by forearm pronation = greater power?)
    My information on the technical/biomechanical aspects of the smash came from this very website! There have been at least two (I think??) threads about forearm pronation or wrist flexion ("snapping"), which have made references to physical studies and trials.

    I am unsure about how the preparation influences the power of the shot. My intuition would be that it doesn't make much difference, so long as you prepare with your elbow up and backwards, which will enable you to produce a correct whip action.

    For some people, a continuous movement from preparation (as opposed to: prepare, wait, hit) might help to keep the motion loose. Tensing during the throw will inhibit the swing and lose power. However, this would not be an issue for people with a more relaxed swing.
    Last edited by Gollum; 04-27-2004 at 10:22 AM.

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    heh
    just realised that.... in a full smash... i pronate my forearm already...
    but actually if there is no pronation.. how would the head turn to hit the shuttle squarely then? with reference to the full smash

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    Quote Originally Posted by noinimod
    heh
    just realised that.... in a full smash... i pronate my forearm already...
    but actually if there is no pronation.. how would the head turn to hit the shuttle squarely then? with reference to the full smash
    Exactly! Pronation is an integral part of the throwing motion. You can't really DO a full smash without some pronation. The pros have such a fast/powerful "whip" action that their pronation is much more pronounced. That's a natural consequence of speeding up the throw.

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    the strange thing is i cant do a full smash on court.. the shuttle doesnt hit squarely on the string bed n goes all over... guess i'm not used to it yet but hopefully i'll be able to get the hang soon. heh

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    You might find that if you are not hitting the shuttle sweetly, it may have something to do with the grip you take when you smash. Because of the amount of pronation needed to hit hit a powerful smash, if your grip is a neutral grip (i.e. between forehand and backhand) you end up slicing across the shuttle. I feel its better to take almost an exagerated forhand grip to ensure that even with pronation of the forearm I still hit the shutte cleanly.

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    Hopefully I should be updating Badmintology soon with a lot of concepts and research that should help in optimising the smash. I've started to review my position as things are getting complicated.

    For example, there is some good evidence to suggest that all the momentum comes from further up the kinetic chain than the elbow. In that piece of research the elbow extension was only doing negative work because it could not contract fast enough to contribute anything.

    However, I think pronation still may have a significant part to play as it works in a different plane to the momentum contributed by the shoulders. Not lost all hope for the wrist and fingers as well, despite some reports to the contrary.

    Joe
    www.topracket.com/Badmintology

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpie
    I would be really interested in reading some the 'technical studies' that you refer to. Can you point me in the right direction with some references?
    Gollum made som very good points!

    You can read more about badminton research by the book "Physical Training for Badminton" written by the danish coach Bo Omosegard. You can by the book on the IBF web-site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeWright
    For example, there is some good evidence to suggest that all the momentum comes from further up the kinetic chain than the elbow. In that piece of research the elbow extension was only doing negative work because it could not contract fast enough to contribute anything.

    However, I think pronation still may have a significant part to play as it works in a different plane to the momentum contributed by the shoulders. Not lost all hope for the wrist and fingers as well, despite some reports to the contrary.

    Joe
    www.topracket.com/Badmintology
    I would like very much to know what research you are referring to!

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    Unfortunately that research is unpublished. However, when I come to write it up on Badmintology I hope to get hold of the data.

    Joe

    www.topracket.com

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    I agree with the point that practicing throwing a cricket ball is an excellent way to teach the forehand overhead whip action, used in smashes. However, I am becoming increasingly wary about teaching children this action by getting them to throw shuttles. I have taped myself doing this action with both ball and shuttle and the results are markedly different. It would have been nice to tape children but this is now banned in the UK.

    Throwing shuttles is the 'party line' in British coaching at the moment, so not many coaches are agreeing me, but I believe it is not an adequate technique.

    When you throw a ball you pronate your forearm - in order to release the ball from your hand efficiently you must pronate to get your palm square to the target line. A shuttle is significantly different and flies effectively in only one direction. In order to release the shuttle efficiently you do not pronate your forearm - you instead release the shuttle flying cork first and therefore reease it with your palm facing to the left (for right handers) which is a backhand grip.

    The logical progression from this is that we are currently teaching children to slice the shuttle.

    Throwing the shutle is particularly helpful to coaches as chidren can feed each other for a variety of shots - this may be the reason why most coaches are resisting my arguments...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slanter
    I agree with the point that practicing throwing a cricket ball is an excellent way to teach the forehand overhead whip action, used in smashes. However, I am becoming increasingly wary about teaching children this action by getting them to throw shuttles. I have taped myself doing this action with both ball and shuttle and the results are markedly different. It would have been nice to tape children but this is now banned in the UK.

    Throwing shuttles is the 'party line' in British coaching at the moment, so not many coaches are agreeing me, but I believe it is not an adequate technique.

    When you throw a ball you pronate your forearm - in order to release the ball from your hand efficiently you must pronate to get your palm square to the target line. A shuttle is significantly different and flies effectively in only one direction. In order to release the shuttle efficiently you do not pronate your forearm - you instead release the shuttle flying cork first and therefore reease it with your palm facing to the left (for right handers) which is a backhand grip.

    The logical progression from this is that we are currently teaching children to slice the shuttle.

    Throwing the shutle is particularly helpful to coaches as chidren can feed each other for a variety of shots - this may be the reason why most coaches are resisting my arguments...
    I abolutely agree with you that throwing a ball is, IMO, the best way to learn a kid how to hit a shuttle. As a formal baseball coach, I had various drills to learn how to pitch a ball. So, when I had begineers, I learned them how to throw a ball (they looked at me suspiciously ). After 30 min of drills with balls, then I said: now "pitch the ball" with the racket and we heard the beautiful "pok" sound all around the gym...

    JRMTL

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