Is the smash always the best option in MD?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by No_footwork, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Until recently I was convinced that when the opportunity is there to smash the birdie in MD, take it.

    I think I have a decent smash and consider it a strength. I have good pace and rarely miss the court. My angle could be better, but overall it's decent. However, I felt I was baited by my better/more experienced opponents to smash the birdie on purpose recently.

    They have a really good lift and smash defense, sending the shuttle deep in the back falling almost vertically down. No problem, I played long enough to know I can't hit a winner from there with the shuttle coming almost straight down so I just focus on getting clean contact and getting good pace on the birdie. Just continue the attack and wait for a loose lift was my mantra. But that loose lift doesn't come until after 5 or 6 smashes. After a few points, I start to think I can't sustain this type of effort.

    So I start to get a little lazy and tried to conserve my energy. Of course, they see that and start pouncing on my smashes sending me scrambling. More energy exerted on my part.

    My next adjustment is to hit a few dropshots, but it is as they expected me to do that and here comes the high lifts again. The end result is I get gassed and they start picking up the pace and game over.

    I felt like I was "rope a dope"d. In other words, I punched myself out.

    Obviously, I need to improve my conditioning and the quality of my smashes/dropshots, but outside of that are there any strategies or tactics I can use to counter their game plan?

    My smash is good enough to put the birdie down if the lifts aren't deep. I felt that I can out drive them, but it's meaningless if they just lift it deep.

    I was hoping to avoid learning the jump smash (need more time working on my footwork), but I need to put more pressure on these guys. I don't mind a good workout, but that day was ridiculous. We won only 1 game out of 4. I was dog tired after that session. Good for my cardio, but felt I was outplayed.

    Any suggestions are appreciated.
     
  2. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    1. Change pace
    2. Change direction
    3. Get the frontman active

    1. Mix smash, half smash and drops, and also clears
    2. target the middle and straight alternately, also vary the slope
    3. looks like you are playing alone, get your partner to be more involved. There is no need for you to run from corner to cornr to chase the birdie. If you smash from the corner, let the front player go back and take the other corner.

    good thing if you are tired is do the drop and then lob.

    All in all, I think your partner is part of the problem as he can't help you when they pounce your lose smashes. alternately, you can try to play defensive, just clear and lift.

    I'm also confused as why you lose the game easily once your smash is tamed, you should put more work on your (and your partner) defence and tricky games. Learn to clear high to the corner and baseline, learn to lift, block and drive the smashes aimed at you. put more work into other areas of your game.
     
    #2 opikbidin, Jun 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  3. bmiph

    bmiph Regular Member

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    Yes. Varies the power of smash, angle of smash and add in variation like high clear and drops in between. If you can get in position fast enough, a quick scan on your opponents spatial location is good so that you know where to target.
     
  4. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    If one strategy doesn't work, try something else... Some brain-storming ideas -

    1. See if you can do something with your serve/receive games, like the top Indonesian players Setiawan and Ahsan do. See if you can prevent them from getting into the high/deep lift games this way.

    2. Two against one. With the 2 of you work on one of them most of the time. Make him move around, with Singles shots (drops and clears). It's more tiring to move the whole body than to just move the arm/racket. If you're smashing, and they're returning your smashes like nothing happens, this could mean they've good hand skills. Test out they footwork and endurance.

    3. Place your smashes/drops more to the middle. The "middle" doesn't have to be geometrically half-way. It's rather an intersecting line/point where both players think the shot belongs to the other partner. This tests out their coordination. If you hit a higher percentage of your smashes around there, more of them would hit the "sweet" spot.

    4. Use occasional very low altitude and flat attacking clears, and see if you can catch one of them. If the response is limited (e.g. always response with a clear), try to repeat with another clear immediately. If one player doesn't work, try on the other player. The idea is if you can catch one of them, you may get a short(er)/weak(er) reply, which you or your partner could finish mid/front-court.

    5. Surprise smashes - if they position themselves well/correctly, they would likely have more space for your cross-court smashes. It's risky, but if your other smashes are not working, you may need to take some more risk (as long as you vary your shots, that they can't anticipate this coming). If you've cross-court slice shots, use it occasionally, and see what happens.

    6. Are they cheating? Sometimes you may find your opponent suddenly on the front court, may be in cross-court position. This is an indication they see your habits. In the case of cross-court, they may notice you never cross-court smash or clear. For them, it makes sense to move forward. For you, you need to keep them honest by clearing cross-court (or straight, depending which one of them anticipates more) and smashing cross-court, at least once in a while.

    So my answer to your original question is yes, you're probably correct, that at amateur (i.e. our) level(s), it may not make sense to always choose to smash. There are something else you could try.

    If none of the above works, well, you know, there are always people better than yourself. Just enjoy the games, and the fact that they're playing with you at all. :)
     
  5. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    Only smash is a bad idea. Good opponents get used to it.

    Change of pace, stick smash, dropshots (fast and slow), varying where you smash (to the sidelines, middle, body)... It's important to learn, whcih shot to use in which situation!

    From the very back of the court, you will not hit a winner-smash most of the time. So if you're out of position (but still good enough to attack), play a stick smash, fast drop, shots that will help you control the game and stay in attacking position. If you're in good position, you can go for the winner (still vary the pace and placement (!!)...)

    If your opponents will return all of this to the back of the court, you have 2 options:

    1. Become a better player
    2. Play against worse players.

    ;-)
     
  6. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    Sometimes, you also need to know that even they return it to the backline and high, there are many shots that go out.
     
  7. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    This is a good post - im sure some people reading it will have been in this position (including me).

    The first thing I will say is that smashing at every opportunity is a poor tactic against a competent defence. You need to be able to break down your opponents defence, and in order to do that, you probably need to learn to introduce more variety and deception into your game. You need to move your opponent out of position, get them twisting and turning (yes I know its doubles - its still possible), and you can slowly start breaking down their defence. Hit half smashes and fast drops shots. Hit straight and cross and middle (mainly straight or middle, but a good fast cross court sliced drop shot is very effective in some situations).

    Can you hit a good stop drop? Can you hit a punch clear? Use them! If you don't have them, learn them! These shots really pressurise your opponents movement, but need to be played with deception to be effective. Now, think about your sequence of shots - fast taps down if the shuttle is on the back line. Hit big body smashes aiming everything at your opponent. Do not bother hitting steep - that encourages them to lift the shuttle - hit flat smashes that will get your net player involved. This should encourage them to expect smashes and they may start to plant their feet. Then hit a big straight fast slice, that gets the defender lunging forwards. Then hit a punch clear to get the shuttle past him. Then hit another body smash to jam him again, then hit a stop drop and that will either be a winner or produce a short lift for you to smack down the middle.

    Create confusion by using a punch clear that goes down the centre line and crosses into the cross court half once it gets near the back - your opponents may get confused as to who to take it.

    But above all, if they are still standing strong in their defence after all of this, accept that you are playing against an extremely skilled opponent (most county players can't withstand the above sequence, thus your opponents must be very advanced!). The way to beat them may be to then simply give them the attack, let them smash, and you frustrate them with your defence - they won't be able to beat you, so they may get tired and start making errors. Once you start to break their defence, or frustrate them, their confidence will start to dip - and then you may have an easier time getting through with fewer shots - because they are worried about your skills.

    If after all this you still can't win rallies, then you must accept your opponent is superior in all areas of the game. Its now your job to work hard and play your best - and they may well still beat you. But as long as you put in maximum effort, then you are a winner too.

    Good luck!

    p.s. just thought I would add - if this happens to me, I mix up fast and intense attacking with endless clearing. I refuse to be "made" to attack - I will play the way I want!
     
  8. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    You play ladies doubles...;-)

    seriously: as usual, good post by MSeeley
     
  9. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    If nothing else works ;)
     
  10. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    1. Changing the pace to me in that situation (deep high lift) is difficult as my margin for error is lower. My main goal is to keep the shuttle in play while maintaining the attack. It could be a lack of skill on my part however.

    2. Yes, I agree. If my shots are too conservative I need to create uncertainty for my opponents by hitting between them. They should help produce some loose shots.

    3. In my situation, I wasn't scrambling because of a cross-lift to the corner. I can get there fast enough to cover the lifts, but they both can drive my smash back to the corner. Which they start doing once they get the timing of my smashes down. At that point, there is little chance my front man can intercept.

    Part of the reason for our 3 losses was that they are a better team. They've been playing together longer while my current partner and I just started playing together recently. However, I do feel there isn't a lot of difference in our skill sets that tactics couldn't overcome. I wasn't necessarily upset by the losses, but by the margin and how they had a game plan and executed it.

    The reason for the thread is that they were baiting me and my partner to squander our energy and once we got tired, they start their attack. As they games got into the 3rd and 4th game, we were tired and we got rolled.

    That's the reason I started to rethink our approach. Obviously, we were spending a lot of energy and not sufficiently threatening our opponents due to their strategy and ability to return smashes with high deep lifts.
     
  11. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Very good advice. I sometimes forget to just hit between the opponents in the heat of the game. Effective and easy way to create loose shots.
     
  12. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful response. Ahsan and Setiawan are my favorite MD team. I'll watch them more carefully, but I don't recall the high-level national players having my problems. Their smashes are much much much more effective than mine, but I'll review their matches to see if I can pick up anything tactically.

    I have no worries about losing to a better team. It's part of getting better, but the way we lost makes me think about not losing the same way. We'll probably lose to them again, but I want to make sure they have to use another strategy against us. :)
     
    #12 No_footwork, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  13. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Yup. Definitely agree with you there about good opponents getting used to smashes. :)

    I do vary my smashes (stick smashes with angle, power smashes to the body, etc) but my problem is that with deep lifts and a near vertically dropping shuttle, my smash options are quite limited at my current skill level.

    Give me a short lift or anything with a nice arc, I can bomb away.

    Haha. Regardless, I'll always strive to be a better player and I'll play against anybody. I am not a snob.:)
     
    #13 No_footwork, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  14. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    A very good post by MSeeley and largely what I was going to post but here are some additional thoughts.

    The smash is and always will be the main form of attack in MD. And when the opportunity arises it will always be my main choice too. But I will always mix it up with some disguised drops and smashes at different angles, heights, speed and position.

    There is no point having the hardest smash in the world if all you're going to do with it is play it into your opponent's hands - i.e. to areas they're not likely to struggle to return it from. You have to make them work for it. But to do that, you need to be very accurate.

    One the things I try to do is to sacrifice a little power for more accuracy, particularly if I'm hitting angles or down the line. Body smashes are usually near full power except if I'm aiming for the racquet shoulder, I would put a little slice. If you're struggling or out of position, try hitting down the middle either with a smash or a stop drop. This will limit the angles available to your opponents, potentially cause confusion and also means you have less running to do!

    I personally find high vertical lifts great for smashing. You need to alter your technique a little, but I can get just as much power as I would from lower lifts.

    On another note, if your opponent's defense is good and your have a weak forecourt partner, then you're in for a hard cardio workout. You need a partner who will intercept well and can anticipate weak returns, capitalise on errors quickly and will know when you are struggling and can rotate/swop positions with you.

    If you and your partner both have good defence, give them the attack occasionally. I wouldn't do it too often but play an attacking clear but make it look like you're about to smash/drop. In MD, I wouldn't play an attacking clear cross court, unless that opponent has a weak smash. Otherwise, aim to place the shuttle directly behind the feet position of your opposite opponent - not his back. You could also place the clear near the middle to cause a little confusion.
     
  15. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    True, I have to figure out a way to judge them better.
     
  16. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Hey Mark, Thanks for the great advice.

    It's interesting to read that you wrote to not worry about the steepness of the smash. I was a little confused at first, but I think your point is to not play into their hand of just lifting (and as you wrote to start a drive battle with my front partner).

    I also like what you wrote about the fast tap. I recall seeing Carsten Mogensen use it very effectively. I need to work that into my game. When Mogensen hits that fast tap from the back, it causes all sorts of havoc bring both opponents to the net and have them scrambling back.

    I do have a decent stop drop and a punch clear. I'll try to use them down the middle more (as others have suggested).

    Lastly, I am in agreement with you that I don't like being "made" to play a certain way. Even though my opponents were "giving" me the attack, I felt like I was playing into their hands.
     
  17. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Awesome post. So far, my straight smash has served me well up to this point, but as you've pointed out I need to mix in some deception.

    I agree with you about putting a little slice into the smash occasionally can be effective. I normally hit straight power smashes, but sometimes when I don't have good balance I accidentally slice it a bit and it throws off my opponents timing. Easy cheap point.

    Can you please expand on what you mean by "place the shuttle directly behind the feet position of your opposite opponent - not his back"? I wouldn't say I and my partner have excellent defense, but nevertheless I am interested to learn how to use the attacking clear. If I understand your post correctly, I should attack clear against the opponent diagonal to me such that the clear lands slightly directly on top of him?
     
  18. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    My point has a few different meanings. If you smash flat, then its harder for the opponent to lift, which as you point out will potentially get the front player involved.

    The main reason you should hit a smash off the back line (given it cannot be a winner) is to keep your opponents back (away from you) by hitting at them with pace. If they know that whenever you are backline you hit softly, then you will soon lose. Keep them back with pace (the angle is never going to be great from the back line anyway).

    The final two things about smashing flat are (in my view) important ones. Firstly - for someone who is intent on defending, he is probably defending whilst crouching (in which case steep smashes are really good to catch him out) OR they are standing up (and more prepared to lift it). If you smash flat against the defender who is not crouch defending, the odds are they have their racket quite low (expecting steep smashes) and hitting something at shoulder height can get them a little confused in their defence (you are on the back line, so hitting shoulder height will not send the shuttle out - the shuttle will slow up and land in).

    Secondly, the flat smash will tend to root people to the spot - people usually defend it by rocking backwards on their heels - and this makes them slow to move - which makes the stop drop and punch clear very effective!

    Good luck to you!

    p.s. Someone "giving you" the attack is not an advantage if they have a stronger defence than you have an attack. It only makes sense when your attack actually wins points. I feel a lot of people have the same misconception as you! Some players like to defend - make them attack instead and they MAY be less comfortable. But only if your defence is stronger than their attack!
     
  19. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    In the defensive formation, your opponent will have his feet wide apart. Depending on the situation and his personal style, he may have one foot slightly in front of the other.

    But whatever the positioning of his feet, if you draw an imaginary line between his feet, then another imaginary line perpendicular to the first line starting from the middle of that line. This is the line that he will struggle to get to quickly as there is least leverage in his stance and his centre of mass will be slightly forward biased. So playing an attacking clear that makes him move along this line can be quite effective, especially if caught off guard.
     
  20. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    No. I think you've misunderstood what I meant.

    Cross court clears in doubles are not often played unless you are trying to force the weaker opponent to the back. For example, in XD you would force the lady to the back given the choice.

    In MD however unless one player is noticeably weaker at the rear than the other, playing a cross court clear is not usually a good idea. If you wanted to clear try my suggestion in the post above but be ready for a smash.

    With the attacking clear the aim is to get it just high enough and deep enough so your opponent cannot intercept it early, but not too high to give them time to move, and at the same time keeping it inside the court!

    A bit of deception here helps give you those valuable fractions of a second delay in your opponent's movement.
     
    #20 R20190, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015

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