Singles base position

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Charlie-SWUK, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Hello there my beauties. I'm having a bit of an issue with singles.

    The issue mainly occurs when I'm playing left handed as my footwork isn't quite as fast (it's not automatic, so I'm still thinking about what I'm doing). I find it very difficult to move into the rear court.

    Is my base position too far forward?

    This is roughly where I move back to after each shot, it's a pretty central position, but I think it might be too close to the net.
    singlespositioning.jpg
     
  2. racketman123

    racketman123 Regular Member

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    Looks a tad too close to the net. But obviously your base position changes throughout the rally, so just try to adapt if you are being pressured in the rear court too much.
     
  3. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I've seen some people put their base here:
    base2.jpg
    So that when they take rear court shots, they're almost only moving sideways.

    One problem I'd find with that is that I serve from the red X (distance-wise), and immediately move into base position and stance for the next shot.

    The players I'm against are all quite high level, and identify over commitments quite easily. Putting myself too far back would open me up to a lot of tight net shot responses and apply quite a lot of pressure.
     
  4. Dimo

    Dimo Regular Member

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    Your base position looks ok to me. Thing is, if your footwork to the rear court is a problem it makes sense to position yourself a little further back (and meanwhile work on your movement). Moving forward comes more naturally to everyone and I'm guessing that, like any competent singles player, you have no problem retrieving drop shots and net shots. I therefore think you'll make your games easier if you move your base rearward until you're in a position to effectively play rearcourt shots while also being able to reach the net.

    What about your stroke play? Is it possible that after playing a shot you are often late in your recovery and preparation for the next?
     
  5. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    I think it depends on your opponents. If they have a strong threatening smash, shift your base position further backwards. If you're not having trouble defending smashes (or getting punch clears), I think your positioning is okay.

    On a side note, I would shift my base position a little more to the left/right depending on your opponents position on court, as you have more time to react to cross-shots than straight ones.
     
  6. racketman123

    racketman123 Regular Member

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    I think somewhere between the blue and red cross is good.
     
  7. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    @Dimo
    My lunges aren't quite as explosive or deep, and my right foot doesn't naturally draw into the leading foot. This makes my recovery a bit slower in the front court. In the rear court, my follow through is /not/ good enough. I end up with my left foot just a little in front of the right. It's a constant error I'm making and trying to train myself out of, but I find myself miss-timing shots when I kick through properly.

    As I said my movement for my left hand just isn't automatic yet. It's quite frustrating.
    [MENTION=102521]Rob3rt[/MENTION]
    The side to side element is something I do without thinking about it. That just happens.

    My opponents have pretty well rounded games. We train hard. :D
     
  8. Dimo

    Dimo Regular Member

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    In that case I'd seriously recommend doing repititions, ideally twice weekly: Have a shuttle feeder lift to the rearcourt; you play a half-smash and recover to take the feeder's reply at the midcourt, and you reply to him/her in the midcourt and the cycle repeats. A coach should be able to help with your movement and recovery, although without one these repetitions will definitely help - BUT only if you apply yourself!).
     
  9. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I think I need to stop swapping back to my right hand to lessen a skill gap.. :crying:

    It doesn't help that I greatly dislike playing doubles left handed either. Guess I just need to be more disciplined with my training.

    Thank you for answering my question! I wanted to check that I wasn't keeping my base too close to the net (having learned to play badminton through doubles) and wasn't making things harder than I should be!
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    The question is really too simplistic. The base position changes with each shot that you play. Since you didn't mention what particular shot you are doing, I can only assume you are trying to get this base position after every shot. If so, you are putting yourself at a considerable disadvantage.
     
  11. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I walk back towards the base position after each shot. If I don't make it all the way back, I don't make it all the way back. I do this to prevent too large of a gap emerging between me and the net.
     
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    If you are aiming to get to this same position all the time, then this makes life difficult for yourself.

    For example, watch the top players play a straight netshot in one corner of the court. Do you see them move all the way behind the service to the middle of the court? Of course not. After playing the netshot, they move to a base just behind the service line. Similarly, do they place themselves equidistant to the two front corners? Definitely not - they position themselves closer to the shuttle.

    Ok, now imagine if they play a cross court netshot. What happens then? They still are close to the net but their base moves towards the centre line of the court.

    A huge amount of singles is about controlling the space around you and controlling the opponent. If you try to move to the same position on court after every shot you put yourself at a considerable disadvantage.

    In your singles group, have you seen some people who look really slow on court, yet seem to win? Have you seen faster players who seem to lose when you think they should be winning easily or get themselves lost on court?
     
  13. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    In the group I train with, I think in pure movement I have the fastest movement, but my opponents all have fantastic shot quality and know exactly how to pressure me. They have very good deception, and accurate length and width to their shots to hit lines well. I find an over commitment at the net would quickly see my scurrying to the back of the court to fetch a good lift, and vice versa.

    The level of opponents I'm playing is high club/county, with one former international player. When playing against people that can produce such fantastic shots, how do you find a way to control the court?
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I don't know what county you are in. Levels vary in different counties.

    I reckon those guys are more experienced than you so you are getting dizzy with the options.

    Specifically, you need to know after you play certain shots, what are the most likely options an opponent will play. The most difficult opponents are those who hit to four corners of the court from a certain position on court. Yet most players even good players will hit to three corners. This will help you close down areas of the court.

    For example, you play a high lift to the tramlines on the forehand side. Opponent is not going to smash and he will probably choose front corners or straight clear. However, on the backhand side, he might favour cross court drop, straight and cross court clear.

    If it's a short lift, he'll not clear (because it might go out) but only smash or drop.

    Ever noticed why top players don't play dropshots from the rear court to drop on the service line? They play fast drops past the service line. The opponent will not play a tight netshot because they are further away from the net and it is harder to play tight netshots. If he can play tight netshots then your problem here is one of these a) dropshot not fast enough, b) you transmit your intention, 3) your previous clears aren't good enough to force him back.

    Let's take that example of the netshot in my previous post. In fact, it's very common to either play the straight net or cross court lift (or fast push). What should I do if the opponent is very fast? I play the netshot so that it is not so far into the corner - I.e. Play a netshot where the shuttle would land in the forecourt at a point closer to the centre of the court. Why? If he is used to playing good cross courts, he's going to have trouble keeping the shuttle inside (tending to hit it out on the side tramlines). You have taken the cross court corner away from him.

    Of course, it goes to say that you must have consistency in your own shot making. There is a huge amount to learn in singles. The more experienced players can go on longer in a rally being consistent especially in defense. Players don't want to be caught out of position. That's why men's singles is becoming more cat and mouse again.
     
  15. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    This has opened up a whole new can of worms..
    [MENTION=7]Cheung[/MENTION]
    What you said about drop shots.. Yeah I tend to favour slower displacement drops to move the opponent closer to the net. Maybe I should switch it up to use more fast drop shots. I always get conscious of allowing the player to stay too still, so I try to play a movement game followed up by a power attacking game.

    I was encouraged to take pace off of the shuttle to avoid being placed too much on the defensive with fast/push returns.

    I also see your point about removing cross court net shots as an option by playing it to the centre rather than trams. Again I was encouraged to play displacement, and aim to hit the side trams.

    With regards to the forehand corner - you would've thought they wouldn't smash, but they surprise me with cross court smashes from that corner, even with pretty deep lifts.

    With regards to the centre, what benefit would you say a central lift would provide? It's not something I often do, but now you've got me questioning some of these tactics and what a shot can do to opportunities.
     
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    They know how to pressure you because you are not so clear about how to position yourself on court and know what are the expected returns. Let's forget about the former international player first. I have played some fulltime players and ex-fulltime players and it is very difficult for an amateur to reach that level.
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Use high clears at the beginning of the game to open up the court first. It slows the opponents thinking to a lower pace. As well as forcing them to move slowly, you are mentally tracking the choice of shots in certain positions. What are their favourite shots? Because you can bet when under pressure or the game goes up in pace, they are more likely to play their favourite shots. Also work out their choices. Are they particularly strong in a certain area? How about the other side? Can you deliberately force them to play their favourite shot? OK, keep that info for midgame around 16-all. Then at 16-16 all (or any time you think it an important mental point of the game, let them play their favourite shot and you are ready for it. Getting it back causes doubts to occur in their mental game.

    Yes, you have to train your speed to cope with this. Watch the shuttle on drops, if the opponent is going to hit it at net height or just below net height, you are more likely to get a flat push back or an attempt at tight net shot. If it drops three feet below the net height, he's not likely to do a fast push, right? :) So now you can predict what sort of shot he is going to play.

    Let's take it further to be cleverer. How to stop the flat push if he is good at it? a) same overhead action as your clear (so a lot of practice is needed), b) do the slight hop reaching up into the shuttle to get a earlier contact point. Then your shuttle can go down more steeply rather than 'floating' across to the other side.

    Now, can we be even more clever? Definitely so! You know your opponent likes to flat push your drops. You have prevented him from doing this in the first part of the game. Now, is the time to control him even more. You are playing lefthanded. From the right rearcourt overhead position, play the cross court drop to deliberately let him hit it at a higher contact point. Take your one skip step to the base. He is almost 80% certain to play a straight flat push. You have anticipated it so once it is played, you know your footwork has to move quickly to reach the shuttle and you then play the cross court drive.


    Displacement works against lower level players who have less clear ideas about footwork and positioning. It serves as a basic framework to work on and alter according to different opponents. If you don't alter and tweak as necessary, your game becomes very predictable to the opponent. Are you playing only to two or three favourite corners ?;)

    Anyway, that's why playing a bit inside the court can produce results. It won't get you a clear winner but it can produce an error from a player who always practices displacement. An opponent's error gives you a point with less physical effort!

    OK, they've played a great cross court smash from their forehand. I think they are targetting your backhand from a technique aspect. It could be your body twisting movement is poor, your grip change could be too slow etc. Anyway, the point is you are weaker on that side. First, work out the technical problems and iron out the weaknesses.

    Absolutely correct to send it up to the centre line. They won't smash so close to the line or if they try, they might pull it out of the side of the court. If they can still smash that side very accurately and consistently, then they are perhaps too good for you .... at this moment. :)

    I think it is absolutely crucial to have a great defense and great netshots in singles. You can do a lot to destroy the opponent's mental game if you have a great defense and great netshots.
     
    #17 Cheung, Sep 3, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Use high clears at the beginning of the game to open up the court first. It slows the opponents thinking to a lower pace. As well as forcing them to move slowly, you are mentally tracking the choice of shots in certain positions. What are their favourite shots? Because you can bet when under pressure or the game goes up in pace, they are more likely to play their favourite shots. Also work out their choices. Are they particularly strong in a certain area? How about the other side? Can you deliberately force them to play their favourite shot? OK, keep that info for midgame around 16-all. Then at 16-16 all (or any time you think it an important mental point of the game, let them play their favourite shot and you are ready for it. Getting it back causes doubts to occur in their mental game.

    Yes, you have to train your speed to cope with this. Watch the shuttle on drops, if the opponent is going to hit it at net height or just below net height, you are more likely to get a flat push back or an attempt at tight net shot. If it drops three feet below the net height, he's not likely to do a fast push, right? :) So now you can predict what sort of shot he is going to play.

    Let's take it further to be cleverer. How to stop the flat push if he is good at it? a) same overhead action as your clear (so a lot of practice is needed), b) do the slight hop reaching up into the shuttle to get a earlier contact point. Then your shuttle can go down more steeply rather than 'floating' across to the other side.

    Now, can we be even more clever? Definitely so! You know your opponent likes to flat push your drops. You have prevented him from doing this in the first part of the game. Now, is the time to control him even more. You are playing lefthanded. From the right rearcourt overhead position, play the cross court drop to deliberately let him hit it at a higher contact point. Take your one skip step to the base. He is almost 80% certain to play a straight flat push. You have anticipated it so once it is played, you know your footwork has to move quickly to reach the shuttle and you then play the cross court drive.


    It works against lower level players who have less clear ideas about footwork and positioning. It serves as a basic framework to work on and alter according to different opponents. If you don't alter and tweak as necessary, your game becomes very predictable to the opponent. Are you playing only to two or three favourite corners ?;)

    OK, they've played a great cross court smash from their forehand. I think they are targetting your backhand from a technique aspect. It could be your body twisting movement is poor, your grip change could be too slow etc. Anyway, the point is you are weaker on that side. First, work out the technical problems and iron out the weaknesses.

    Absolutely correct to send it up to the centre line. They won't smash so close to the line or if they try, they might pull it out of the side of the court. If they can still smash that side very accurately and consistently, then they are perhaps too good for you .... at this moment. :)

    I think it is absolutely crucial to have a great defense and great netshots in singles. You can do a lot to destroy the opponent's mental game if you have a great defense and great netshots.
     
  19. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    With regards to their level, I'm somewhere in the middle. There are two players I'm pretty close to in terms of shot quality and movement, but they read my game better. I think you're right about being too predictable. Those two players win pretty consistently, but I've beaten them left handed before.

    The other two players are leagues above me haha. One is a former international player that represented his country. I'm happy just to get a couple of points against him.

    I think the fact I've managed to win left handed attests to the fact that they're just reading my game better than I'm reading theirs. We've played a lot together, so maybe other opponents will struggle more against me.

    They do however have very good deception, they're able to use double movements to quickly feign a net shot to play a lift, or vice versa.

    I think I'm gonna have this on my mind for a while, and practise my left handed footwork more. I just wanted to check my base wasn't too far forward to move back to retrieve lifts, as if it was, I'd be making footwork harder than it needed to be.
     
  20. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    [MENTION=7]Cheung[/MENTION]. Absolutely fantastic. Did you figure all these out by yourself from playing, thinking and watching videos? Or did you get this kind of coaching from good coaches? I wish my kid had received similar kind of tactical level coaching.
     

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