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Thread: Tony Gunawan

  1. #18
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    Just bringing up this old post again

    Had a conversation with a badminton person and that person had no special opinion on Tony G.; even rated Halim over Tony because Halim has a great smash.

    What's good about Tony's play is that you don't see any special shots (apart form a few cross court netshots). It's very interesting to see a person with no obvious oustanding aspect of the game playing at the highest level. (unlike Sigit, Rexy).

    IMHO , Tony's play shows intelligence. That's why I like his play.

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    Originally posted by Cheung
    Just bringing up this old post again

    IMHO , Tony's play shows intelligence. That's why I like his play.
    That's the thing, Tony outsmarted all this opponents, that's what made him better than Candra, even KDM. To the uneducated observers: WHOO huge smash, impressive, incredible speed, cool, great reflexes WOW. Tony G didn't seem to have any of these things because he didn't need them, he read the game so damn well that he was always there so didn't seem to have the speed, always had his racquet in place (due to his ability to read the play again) so didn't need great reflexes, okay he didn't have a huge smash but it was good enough to set up.

    Someone (biased Pommy, you know who you are ) commented about Joanne Goode had probably the best badminton brain in the game, nup, not even close I've watched a lot of her play, watch Tony G vs KDM and you'll see two of the great badminton brains at work with Tony G the obvious winner.

    Someone else asked during the US Open why people thought Tony G could win the doubles at his age whilst Simon Archer couldn't win mixed at a similar age. When I thought about it at the time, my conclusion was [1] that Tony's great advantage was his brain, and that didn't really lessen as much as other physical attributes. Simon has a great hard and deceptive smash which has definately gotten worse with age. PS Tony G ended up winning mixed and I think came second in doubles? I could be wrong.

    [1] Besides the fact that Tony G is one of the all time greats and Simon Archers greatest achievement (bronze Olympic medal?) wouldn't rank in Tony G's top ten Sorry just stirring.
    Last edited by Pecheur; 05-26-2003 at 01:11 AM.

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    Cool right partner

    The thing I like about Tony is he always play hard and smart and respect his partner. However, I would not put Tony in the same level as Rexy or even Chandra. It's important to find a right partner and Tony found one when teamed up with Chandra as they macthed each other perfectly. Tony did team up with Halim earlier and did not achieve much so was Sigit(with Halim) and came out short handed. So far, only Chandra did well teaming up with both Tony and Sigit, so Chandra should deserve better recognition. The Korean pairs are quite unique, on one hand there's a speedly Lee/Yoo and on the other there's power pair of Ha/Kim. Korea did try to mix and match among these 4 players and the result was unsatisfactory. In my opinion, in double, it's the team work that makes the players great, not that much of individual skill(or else Sigit would be on top of the list but Sigit has atitude problem especially when he teamed up with Halim).

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    Agree with Cheung and Pecheur

    I am admired with smart player too. At the place I play ball, there are lots of players with some amasing skills (quick footwork, strong fhand/bhand, crazy smash). However, the best player I find is a retired Taiwan national player. He is over 80. This old man does not run fast, does not smash like a young kid. What he does is using his brain and wrist. He practised with me couple times and he always put the shuttle in the unbelivable positions. When he cleared to the back, I didn't see him swing the racket hard but the shuttle passed me quickly. His drops were incredible too. I can never tell from his body movement and the shuttle projection the difference between his clear shot and his net drop, until the shuttle hit the ground....

    Amasingly, he told me he couldn't see the shuttle clear any more. The blurry shalldow of the shuttle and the movement of the opponent are the only elements he needs.

    He is a player I consider good and smart. =D

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    Default Re: right partner

    If we talk about double. I personally can't say that X is the best, Y is not best as X, or Z is ....... bla..bla..bla.....

    I agree with Han. Team work and the right parthner are very important in double.
    If we look back, we can find so many great double playes at their time.
    Let's see :
    -Ade Chandera / Christian (Ina)
    -Tjun Tjun / Johan Wahyudi (Ina)
    -Kartono / Heriyanto (Ina)
    -Park Joo Bong / Kim Moon Shu (Kor)
    -Li Yong Bo / Tian Bing Yi (Chi)
    -Rexy Mainaky / Ricky Sibagja (Ina)
    -Tjie Sun Kit / Yap Kim Hook (May)
    (You can add the others to the list)

    My opinion :
    At this present moment, there are so many pairs sit the same level of quality. They can beat each other, who fit and ready can be the winner.
    Again, It is hard to say X is the best.

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    Han,

    The period when Tony and Halim first partnered up was relatively new in terms of international tournaments.

    I think Tony learnt a lot from that period playing with Chandra. Doesn't it mean anything that after the Tony/Chandra partnership was split, Tony still went on to win the WC with Halim?

    In any case, Tony did amazingly well partnering Rexy in 2000 TC finals and also an ABC (I think). He's played with 3 partners and done well. Chandra has had two partners and done well (Chandra is pretty cool as well)

    But that's getting off the theme.

    Would an 'intelligent' player be able to adapt to different partners? Certainly, Tony G now plays with a new partner in men's doubles and still has been able to get to the q/f of major tournaments. I think that's no mean feat (sorry, no disrespect to his partner).

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    Default Re: Re: Tony G.

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Byro-Nenium
    [B]Don't know but i didn't see the Japan Open because SINGAPORE, didn't broadcast it. ]

    Sorry you missed it, but the Finals were telecast live and I reported on some events here.

    I also thought Adel is Singaporean, but to all my Indonesian friends, "tolong cakap inggeris" - Please speak English, for the benefit of all here who do not understand Indonesian or Malay. Hope Adel will not respond in Korean, which he has taken a liking to the last time we interacted!

    Tony Gunawan impressed me when he partnered Chandra Wijaya and won not a few internationals. But since his departure for the US and his subsequent new partnership with Malaythong (of Laotian origin?), we have since seen little of him, unfortunately. The last time I saw him in action was during last year's Singapore Open. But Chandra went on to win this year's All England with Sigit.

    I thought based on current form and performance, Kim Dong Moon is more consistent and impressive although he made less appearance because of his recent injury.

    It may surprise you, but I consider Rexy Mainaky's partner, Ricky Subagia, a fantastic doubles player. I can't forget his lightning and deceptive service and his explosive movements.

    But, if you trace back to the All England records, among the Indonesian doubles players, none can beat the achievement of Tjun Tjun and Wahjudi, whom I had the privilege to watch them in Singapore, and who won six times from 1974 to 1980, somehow missing the crown in 1976.

    But, so far, none can better the record of the great Dane, Finn Kobbero, who partnered Jorgen Hansen six times and Poul Erik Nielsen once, to win the All England Men's Doubles seven times in 1955 and 1956 and from 1960 to 1964.
    Last edited by Loh; 05-26-2003 at 04:08 AM.

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    sorry

    Just to point out that the original post was in 2001.

    At that time, Kim Dong Moon had played very few tournaments so current form was unknown.

    And the term 'best' player was meant to say, 'best men's doubles player at that moment in time'! ie beginning of 2001. Hope that clears up any confusion with regards to comparisions of past and present players

    So the Japan Open, I and BN was referring to was in 2001!!

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    Wink

    My humble apologies, Cheung and all. I thought we are still in 2003! 2001, but the names are still very familiar despite the years!

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    Cool han

    One thing for sure, the following pairs are in the same league in 2003:
    -Kim/Ha;
    -Chandra/Sigit;
    -Lee/Yoo;
    I am sure Denmark does have 2 capable pairs(one of them beat Lee/Yoo during Sudirman 2003) but not quite consistent.

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    Default Re: Re: Re: Tony G.

    Originally posted by Loh


    Tony Gunawan impressed me when he partnered Chandra Wijaya and won not a few internationals. But since his departure for the US and his subsequent new partnership with Malaythong (of Laotian origin?), we have since seen little of him, unfortunately. The last time I saw him in action was during last year's Singapore Open. But Chandra went on to win this year's All England with Sigit.

    It may surprise you, but I consider Rexy Mainaky's partner, Ricky Subagia, a fantastic doubles player. I can't forget his lightning and deceptive service and his explosive movements.

    But, if you trace back to the All England records, among the Indonesian doubles players, none can beat the achievement of Tjun Tjun and Wahjudi, whom I had the privilege to watch them in Singapore, and who won six times from 1974 to 1980, somehow missing the crown in 1976.

    But, so far, none can better the record of the great Dane, Finn Kobbero, who partnered Jorgen Hansen six times and Poul Erik Nielsen once, to win the All England Men's Doubles seven times in 1955 and 1956 and from 1960 to 1964.
    Oh there's no question that there have been really great pairs, I remember Ricky and Rexy, however I'm too young for the rest. But the thing is about Tony now is that lack of a decent partner. Bob is a good player but Chandra went from Tony G to Sigit who despite having a strange style is a great if inconsistent player so it's not unexpected that he will have success. I can't really see Tony winning any big tournaments with Bob as a partner. Also Tony is now really a part time player so you don't expect that much success, as opposed to Chandra who is still full time.

    PS I definately would have liked to see the Danes play, it's weird that even with the same training, here in Oz most of the good players had Asian coaches people still play more or less to the expected racial stereotypes for doubles, Westerners front back, little rotation, Easterners, moving lots. I wonder if it's historical in Denmark as well as the UK.

    PPS Speaking about Danes, is there anyway I can get videos or footage of Morten Frost? Have lots of Peter Gade, but Morten is a legend.

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    This, I have to disagree.

    Anybody who had seen Park Joo Bong & Kim Moon Soo play is likely to say otherwise. These two, to me, are the greatest of them all; past present and future.

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    Originally posted by wilfredlgf
    Anybody who had seen Park Joo Bong & Kim Moon Soo play is likely to say otherwise. These two, to me, are the greatest of them all; past present and future. [/B]
    No doubt about it, Park and Kim, were a great pair. They won the AE thrice (1985, '86 and '90) and Park partnered Lee Sang Bok to win a forth in 1989. During that period, the other more famous pairs include China's Li Yongbo (currently head coach) and Tian Bingyi and Malaysia's Sidek brothers, Jalani and Razif.

    Somehow, the Korean and Chinese pairs met twice in the AE Finals, with Park and Kim winning in 1990 and losing to Li and Tian the following year.

    The Sidek brothers achieved success in 1982 but were unfortunate to lose to Park and Kim in 1986. As I recalled, the Koreans were adept at killing the bird which was served an inche or less across the net. I think they were the ones who pioneered the aggressive attacking net play and really caused a lot of trouble to the Sidek brothers. If I am not mistaken, time and again, the Malaysians were punished for serving just a mite too high and I think one of the brothers, Jalani (?) had a forehand serve or both of them (?). I have to watch the tapes again to be able to confirm. This is probably one reason why the forehand serve is less preferred than the backhand serve in doubles because the former tends to project a higher trajectory. The brothers also lost to the Chinese pair in 1988.

    In terms of popularity, no doubt both Park Joo Bong and Li Yongbo would have won by big margins!

    But to conclude that Park and Kim are all-time greats, past, present and future, may be pushing it a bit too far.

    If we measure the success of the players by the number of AE (once the unofficial world championship) wins, nobody has beaten Finn Kobberro of the past. The Koreans cannot be said to be the best at present simply because they have not beaten the likes of Chandra and Sigit and their fellow Korean countrymen in recent times. To say that Park and Kim should be able to beat their opponents when the Koreans were in their prime is only in theory and there is no way to confirm this.

    The future is hard to predict. With so many countries taking to the badminton game because of its status as an Olympic sport, many more new professional players than before are entering international tournaments. Unlike the past, there are more players to contend with and one has not only to be good but also consistent to be able to last the distance!

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    Wink

    Guys,

    sorry to interrupt but discussion on who the best pairings in the world over time was not really the intention of this thread

    As you can see, the arguments can go on for a very long time

    Rather, this thread was really about how good Tony G is, and the attributes that made him be able to reach the top. Don't know about you guys but I thought it would be far more interesting to discuss about how intelligence plays a part in the play of the game rather than technique.

    Maybe it's just easier to discuss about past players and argue who is/was the best though

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    Loh,

    If my memory serves me correctly, Tony has played with Bob on three or four occasions, The last two/three occasions, they've reached the q/f stage. I think that's no mean feat considering the relative standing of US badminton previously. Who would you suspect contributes more in getting to the q/f stages? Tony or Bob??

    (and no disrespect to Bob M. This is a purely objective point of view on the play and in no way is meant to constitute a personal attack)

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    DEAR TONY,

    PLS COME BACK AND PLAY AGAIN FOR INDONESIA JUST FOR THE 2004 OLYMPICS. PLS ALLOW US TO SEE YOU PLAY WITH A CAPABLE PARTNER AGAIN AND WOW US.

    I HV BEEN WATCHING YOU SINCE YOU WERE 6 YRS OLD PLAYING IN THE OLD H.C.I.Y.S. BADMINTON BUILDING I TEMBAAN-SURABAYA.

    TKS FOR CONSIDERING.

    RGDS.

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    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Smile

    Cheung

    Yes, I think they played together a few times and reached the qf stage, maybe not as many as you said. I've got to check this.

    I agree that Tony is definitely the main contributor with his skill, though a little rusty now, and his vast international exposure.

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