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  1. #18
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    Having a personal coach is essential for a players development and progress. I am just stating that some (a minority) players are too dependent on their coaches. Without a coach on the sideline, they are lost. Is it because of their lack of 'killer instinct'? Making comparisons in our sister sport, which has far more funding, the best player in the world at the moment, Roger Federer does not have a personal coach. He's doing pretty well for himself don't you think? (bar the Olympic performance).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    Well, everybody is different.

    An athelete has many facets that ultimately decides their performance. They may be relatively weaker in some areas than others. Some of these areas may need the extra attention of a coach. Pressure also does different things to different people. Some people react by performing better. Some people absolutely crumble. So why not have a personal coach to help improve performance?

    May I point out that the eventual winner of the mens singles Olympic games this year has his own coach....

    The point of having a coach is to get the optimum performance out of a player. Maybe Misbun is right in that the time he had divided amongst the 3 players was too little. Previously he only had two, of which one won the All England. As for their other performances, perhaps most people will not object the players' own psychology have influenced their results.

    But with WCH and LCW, do they lack the hunger? Perhaps not...

  2. #19
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    Slight overeaction Fend??

    I'm sure the skill training side of things is well up to scratch. It's not like the Malaysians are a different skill level from the Indonesians or Chinese.

    I think Misbun is not a bad coach, certainly a very charismatic fellow :P I do think he is very biased though, and has expressed some favouritism for certain players and families of players. As a national coach, it is not something other players look up to, or gives them confidence.

    I thought that Malaysia hired lots of foreign coaches before? The other problem as stated by himself is funding.

    I would get rid of Yap Kim Hock? the doubles coach...
    Quote Originally Posted by FEND.
    GO MISBUN!!! BYE BYE!!! SAYONARA!!! ALOHA!!!! ARRIVEDERCI!! ΑΝΤΙΟ!!! ADIÓS !!! 안녕 !!! 再见 !!! VAARWEL!!! AU REVOIR!!! AUF WIEDERSEHEN!!! さようなら!!! ADEUS!!! SELAMAT TINGGAL!!!

    WE DON'T NEED YOU!! YOU JUST S*** IN MY OPINION. NOT WILLING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!!

    Badminton Association Malaysia should employ better people. More technology should be involved in training out players. It comes down to a proper physio, equipment, speciality coaches like someone to practice smashes with the players, someone to coach service, someone for netplay etc etc, psychological analysis of an athelete, etc.

    They should take a leaf out of Arsene Wenger's book. The current manager of Arsenal FC in England. When he came everything changed. The diet, the coaches (half of them were replaced), the rooms were repainted to beige instead of fiery red, more physical training, less junk food consumption, less alcohol, better pitches to play on, proper area to diagnose players injuries etc etc.

    This is how modern sports training should be carried out not 'kampung' style training. That's how one should improve sports. If your coaches aren't up to it, GET FOREIGN ONES WHO ARE DAMN WELL BETTER.

    Just a thought.

    Anyone agrees / disagrees? Please put your views.

  3. #20
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    Fend, there is a world of difference between Arsernal FC and Malaysia badminton. Arsernal has the luxury of buying the best players from any country. Can Misbun buy Taufit and ask him to play for Malaysia? Of course not. A better comparison would be between the England soccer team and the Malaysian badminton team; and here you will find a lot of similarities-sacked coaches, finger-pointing, morale problem, in-fighting, etc., etc.

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Fend, there is a world of difference between Arsernal FC and Malaysia badminton. Arsernal has the luxury of buying the best players from any country. Can Misbun buy Taufit and ask him to play for Malaysia? Of course not. A better comparison would be between the England soccer team and the Malaysian badminton team; and here you will find a lot of similarities-sacked coaches, finger-pointing, morale problem, in-fighting, etc., etc.
    I don't think England football team is a good example to follow, they keep losing all the important matches! (this has been the case for years and years)

  5. #22
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    Smile

    Misbun resignation....He cannot shoulder all the responsibilities...Very preculiar to sport in Malaysia. It is always change of players and coaches but never the administrator. The most glaring is Malaysian Football. For all the non Malaysian...we have nearly 10 coaches or MORE ( lost count)but the helm remains the same for the past twenty years!!! In addition, not a single stadium in UK can match our National Football stadium at Bukit Jalil in terms of capacity and infra structure!!!

    As for badminton in Malaysia we need more fund and a bigger talent pool. Except for Koo Kien Keat our back up at Bukit Jalil does not seems to be heading any where. The next up and coming world beater only coming to puberty!!! A 12 years old player from Selangor name Zulfaldi. I guess the trainees at this elite school stop improving the moment they are selected. No pressure as there is not much competition from others. Thus we need more elite center in every state.

    Get the parent involve by providing them with Level One coaching cert. Send one ex-national trainee to every district where his responsibilities include coaching teachers and aspiring coaches , scouting for BAM , training players, and organizing age group tournament. Thus all our ex national players knew there is a job waiting for them in collaboration with Ministry of Education and National Sport Council which will foot their wages.

    Lastly, am I dreaming!!! I hope to see an Olympic champion in badminton from Malaysia.

  6. #23
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    mmm. In response to taneepeek. : I don't think they bought Henry when he was at his best, neither did they buy Vieira when he was at his best, Ashley cole was from the youth system, Ljungberg was an unknown before he came to Arsenal, Nicolas Anelka also before he left and the list goes on. What I am pointing out here is that with a proper systematic scheme, we can mine out players better than the ones we have no only in terms of badminton or football but other sports. I question the dedication of our players at times or rather our national athletes. Are they there rather for the free housing, sponsorship free pay checks by Maybank and so on.. (You know who you are). Do you see them training as hard as they should be? maybe harder maybe less we cannot tell. But one thing remains clear, Malaysia has not won any medals in the current olympics. Our future looks so dim that we need the explosion of an Atom Bomb before we can see the light.

    Wenger had a proper system at Arsenal FC. He knew what was lacking, saw the problem and fixed every aspect of it. In our country malaysia, do we see proper dietician monitering what our players eat? A physio to keep track of our players fitness? No we do not. We can actually set up sophisticated systems, everything was neatly planned out. Here however we do not see it. There was a youth system. Do we see a proper youth system here in Malaysia? If so please enlighten me. When I mean proper I mean 'Specified for ages under _____ and schemes aka study in the morning at a proper school and train badminton in the afternoon.

    If you want an example of a fantastic youth system, look no further than Ajax FC of Holland. They CHURN OUT yes CHURN OUT top class players at 21 who ARE SUPERB players capable of first team competitive football. Want some names? Dennis Bergkamp, Kluivert, Van Der Vaart, Van Der Meyde, Christian Chivu, Johan Cryuff (if i'm not mistaken) and many others.

    Don't tell me they had a time machien and bought them from the future or something.

    The England football team? They do not have the luxury of training everyday unlike our malaysian national badminton team do they? They are just picked on their performance at club level, but you have to question why some of them are there, aka Owen, Heskey ? But here in Malaysia our national players train together don't they? 1 coach can't teach all the strokes. 1 coach can't have all the international experience. These coaches here only teach what they know, and from what I see, what they know is not that much. Malaysia should go out and get more foreign coaches to better ourselves. Start swallowing whatever pride is left (almost none) and go out there and get someone who can shed enlightenment on our players.

    When I mean coach I am not saying only the head coach, there should be someone to do specific drills with that person, a tactician, analyst, physio etc.

    Right now that's all I've got to say. My brain is fine tuned for studying chemistry now.

    Will post back after replies to this topic

    Cheers

  7. #24
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    Fend , you complain about the lack of coaches correct?
    But doesn't in the article Misbun state that he asked for more coaches, but BAM denied his request? I'm pretty sure he's not knowledgable enough to do all the things you think they need. You need a certain ammount of funding for all of that, and from the looks of it, BAM isn't willing to give that funding out. Finger pointing at Misbun won't really help.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEND.
    mmm. In response to taneepeek. : I don't think they bought Henry when he was at his best, neither did they buy Vieira when he was at his best, Ashley cole was from the youth system, Ljungberg was an unknown before he came to Arsenal, Nicolas Anelka also before he left and the list goes on. What I am pointing out here is that with a proper systematic scheme, we can mine out players better than the ones we have no only in terms of badminton or football but other sports. I question the dedication of our players at times or rather our national athletes. Are they there rather for the free housing, sponsorship free pay checks by Maybank and so on.. (You know who you are). Do you see them training as hard as they should be? maybe harder maybe less we cannot tell. But one thing remains clear, Malaysia has not won any medals in the current olympics. Our future looks so dim that we need the explosion of an Atom Bomb before we can see the light.

    Wenger had a proper system at Arsenal FC. He knew what was lacking, saw the problem and fixed every aspect of it. In our country malaysia, do we see proper dietician monitering what our players eat? A physio to keep track of our players fitness? No we do not. We can actually set up sophisticated systems, everything was neatly planned out. Here however we do not see it. There was a youth system. Do we see a proper youth system here in Malaysia? If so please enlighten me. When I mean proper I mean 'Specified for ages under _____ and schemes aka study in the morning at a proper school and train badminton in the afternoon.

    If you want an example of a fantastic youth system, look no further than Ajax FC of Holland. They CHURN OUT yes CHURN OUT top class players at 21 who ARE SUPERB players capable of first team competitive football. Want some names? Dennis Bergkamp, Kluivert, Van Der Vaart, Van Der Meyde, Christian Chivu, Johan Cryuff (if i'm not mistaken) and many others.

    Don't tell me they had a time machien and bought them from the future or something.

    The England football team? They do not have the luxury of training everyday unlike our malaysian national badminton team do they? They are just picked on their performance at club level, but you have to question why some of them are there, aka Owen, Heskey ? But here in Malaysia our national players train together don't they? 1 coach can't teach all the strokes. 1 coach can't have all the international experience. These coaches here only teach what they know, and from what I see, what they know is not that much. Malaysia should go out and get more foreign coaches to better ourselves. Start swallowing whatever pride is left (almost none) and go out there and get someone who can shed enlightenment on our players.

    When I mean coach I am not saying only the head coach, there should be someone to do specific drills with that person, a tactician, analyst, physio etc.

    Right now that's all I've got to say. My brain is fine tuned for studying chemistry now.

    Will post back after replies to this topic

    Cheers
    1) IMHO with the exeption of the olympics............ the reasonable performance in the Thomas cup.......... everything was nice and peachy (but not that great) for malaysian badminton this past year (2003-2004). couple of semifinals, finals, and open champions.

    2) you want to compare malaysia to england? when england or a club wins something everybody comes out and celebrate. in malaysia what do you see? almost nothing. but when we lose our players and coaches get stoned by the public. im a malaysian. and right now with this kind of attitude im seeing in malaysia........... im not the proudest man alive.

    3) china and indonesia do not practice anywhere near the stuff that you have mentioned. still world beaters year after year.

    4) i do agree about 1 thing you have said........ there are a whole lot of freebies in malaysia. they enjoy free programs set up to develop the sport in malaysia cause its free. charge them a cent and see how many stays. where do all talent go to after highschool education? they run off to further their education. there goes the millions of dollars (ringgit) the govt spent (wasted).
    they also can not use the excuse that ther is no future/job security/income in sport for the reason there is none is because they themselves are not willing to pay, then who should be willing to pay them. why cant major brands/companies support these atheletes? because everyone is buying pirated goods/fakes that transfer profits to shadow companies that do not give back to the community/country.

    5) your high regard for foreign/western coaches without any respect for the wealth of knowledge and specialition possesed by our own country is known to me as the 'post colonization syndrome/mentality'. and yes there are many of you in malaysia.

    right back at you Malaysia!

  9. #26
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    Default In The End It Is The Player Himself

    As with many things, one has to find a scapegoat for one's loss or disappointment.

    I think, under the circumstances, Misbun has done his best as coach. He has warned the BAM of certain shortcomings but no relief was offered. The support was lacking, so it seemed. So he and Yap soldiered on as best as they could. There were certainly improvement on their trainees' performance, particularly Lee Chong Wei and the veteran doubles of Choong/Lee as they have displayed in recent IBF tournaments. Some may disagree, but I thought they have done relatively well compared with before. But as a team, they were not able to shine, as in the TC. It was most unfortunate and so Misbun has now to take the blame as a gentleman.

    As stated by some, technical-wise, there is little difference among Malaysia's best compared with those of China, Denmark, Indonesia or South Korea. Then why was it that Malaysian players could not even garner a single medal in badminton?

    It all boils down to the form of the player on his day of competition. There is no reason why on a good day a Malaysian cannot beat Taufik or Shon or Sony or Boonsak! It is of no use trying to buy Taufik's services because Malaysia already posseses such calibre.

    Just throw your mind back a few months ago and picture the unhealthy state of affairs of Indonesian badminton, of Taufik's and their doubles' yo-yo performance. This has necessitated an almost complete revamp of the training programme for Indonesia's national players with a seeminly 'tough' Icuk at the helm. Any world-class player can fall into a slump suddenly and fail to recover in time for the big stage! Even in this particular Athens Olympics, we have witnessed upsets upon upsets. Who would have thought that super Lin Dan would be the first World No. 1 victim to fall in the first round to unseeded Ronald Susilo? And there were many other examples along the way.

    So, there is a limit to what the authorities can do for a player. You may have the best facilities, the best coach (not necessarily foreign coaches are the best for Malaysia has some of them and yet could not always deliver), to help you train better, but in the end, it is the player himself who will face the final test. What is the player made of, particularly his mental makeup?

    The confluence of ability, fitness, talent, form and luck will have to come into play in the final analysis. And all of these point to the player in question in the most crucial moment of his performance.

    The player has to answer for himself in the end and please don't blame the coach!

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrunkZ69
    Fend , you complain about the lack of coaches correct?
    But doesn't in the article Misbun state that he asked for more coaches, but BAM denied his request? I'm pretty sure he's not knowledgable enough to do all the things you think they need. You need a certain ammount of funding for all of that, and from the looks of it, BAM isn't willing to give that funding out. Finger pointing at Misbun won't really help.
    Funding should be the job of the BAM. From what I look at it right now, it is as if they do not support our players. If they did our players would have better 'stuff' to train with. If they also had been more commmitted. Why keep misbun there. -.-

    Misbun I feel does not keep up. If he had asked for more coaches, maybe all he said was, 'Look here, I want more coaches to train my players.' BAM would say, 'Uhh right. Can't you do it yourself?' Misbun, 'Yea I guess you're right' Do you think he gave proper documentation? I do not think so. Did he have an efficient system in the works? No. As far as I know malaysian badminton, I spoke to Kwan Yoke Meng once when he came to Brunei. He said in the 90's during Foo Kok Keong's time and stuff, they had a chinese coach who specifically taught the basics. Footwork and stuff. Why do you think the chinese's footwork is bloody good? If I'm not mistaken he also said that this chinese coach after coaching malaysia went to Indonesia where Mia Audina was scouted and trained.

    So it's down to this. Malaysian mentality. 2: BAM needs to listen to advice. Not live in their fantasy land when we won the Thomas Cup in 1992. Misbun definitely must go. I do not see any progress in Malaysian Badminton. More of a backwards kinda of thing. If we had progress why hasn't our womens players improved? Why has it stayed stagnent or rather outdated?

    mmm.

    P.S Yong Hock Kin gave me his shirt (unused, only has malaysia as the name, no player name but it has proton sponsorship) no signature. He gave me when he came with Kwan Yoke ming and stuff during the Brunei Grand Prix in 1999 if I'm not mistaken.

  11. #28
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEND.

    So it's down to this. Malaysian mentality. 2: BAM needs to listen to advice. Not live in their fantasy land when we won the Thomas Cup in 1992. Misbun definitely must go. I do not see any progress in Malaysian Badminton. More of a backwards kinda of thing. If we had progress why hasn't our womens players improved? Why has it stayed stagnent or rather outdated?


    P.S Yong Hock Kin gave me his shirt (unused, only has malaysia as the name, no player name but it has proton sponsorship) no signature. He gave me when he came with Kwan Yoke ming and stuff during the Brunei Grand Prix in 1999 if I'm not mistaken.
    you are being too ideal. for most of your argument is very rethoric.

    show me proof that malaysian badminton is going downhill.

    if saying the malaysian team fared badly in the olympics should cost Misbun his job........... then Lin Dan should very much hang up his racquet as well.

    what is your point about the YHK t shirt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man
    1) IMHO with the exeption of the olympics............ the reasonable performance in the Thomas cup.......... everything was nice and peachy (but not that great) for malaysian badminton this past year (2003-2004). couple of semifinals, finals, and open champions.

    2) you want to compare malaysia to england? when england or a club wins something everybody comes out and celebrate. in malaysia what do you see? almost nothing. but when we lose our players and coaches get stoned by the public. im a malaysian. and right now with this kind of attitude im seeing in malaysia........... im not the proudest man alive.

    3) china and indonesia do not practice anywhere near the stuff that you have mentioned. still world beaters year after year.

    4) i do agree about 1 thing you have said........ there are a whole lot of freebies in malaysia. they enjoy free programs set up to develop the sport in malaysia cause its free. charge them a cent and see how many stays. where do all talent go to after highschool education? they run off to further their education. there goes the millions of dollars (ringgit) the govt spent (wasted).
    they also can not use the excuse that ther is no future/job security/income in sport for the reason there is none is because they themselves are not willing to pay, then who should be willing to pay them. why cant major brands/companies support these atheletes? because everyone is buying pirated goods/fakes that transfer profits to shadow companies that do not give back to the community/country.

    5) your high regard for foreign/western coaches without any respect for the wealth of knowledge and specialition possesed by our own country is known to me as the 'post colonization syndrome/mentality'. and yes there are many of you in malaysia.

    right back at you Malaysia!
    With respect to your statement. On point 5, our wealth and knowledge + specialisation is almost nothing compared to the rest of the world. When I mean rest of the world, I do not mean the West. I am talking of Japan, Korea, China, SINGPOARE and stuff. NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN SURVIVE BEING A GENERALIST. Believe me I know. If you want to know why it's the same principle as it is in Economics. I would not go and touch on it now. If we are so good, why have we had to play catch up in terms of technology? Better education? Infrastructure? International Trade? Malaysia is not a country full of what I would term 'pro' people. However we do have people who can be 'pro.' However our people here do not even know how to get there. Want an example? Intel. Nvidia. ATI. AMD. IBM. Microsoft. Do you possibly think that we would've invented all these first? No history has shown it. Our way of laid back thinking and as mahathir calls something like 'kais pagi makan pagi, kais malam makan malam' english translation : work morning eat in the morning, work at night eat at night, but the meaning is clear. We only work just to satisfy our immediate wants. We do not seem to care about progress as the rest of the world.

    This does not only apply to sports in our country but rather the other parts like our economy and stuff. Without outside help, we would be stuck in a padigram which will limit us and push us back into the stone age. Unless Malaysia opens up to the new ideas, we will be what the malays call 'seperti katak di bawah tempurong' which means like a frog under an empty half coconut shell. Meaning : One who is narrow minded. As the frog only sees so little, it thinks only so little. Do you think also that we would be able to launch measat the satelite into orbit? Without russian technology? Hell no.

    Same goes with our country. Without innovators like Mahathir we would be almost no where. Who would've heard bout malaysia?

    We can only do so much for our sports in malaysia. if we want to improve the only way is to get some new faces in to share new ideas. What's wrong with accepting other ideas especially if those ideas are good ones?

    mmm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man
    what is your point about the YHK t shirt?
    in the moment kind of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man
    show me proof that malaysian badminton is going downhill.
    I still do not see the superiority of Malaysian badminton as I used to watch on TV when I was younger. Last time the words Malaysia Badminton struck FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF THEIR OPPONENTS. NOW, it's just like a small puppy who doesn't even have its first teeth barking as loud as it's could.

    You know what I mean. When we say WCH vs TH. WHo do you honestly think first to win? Even though TH is lower rank than WCH we all persume first that TH will win. What bout mens doubles? CTH & LWW. Wow they got no 1. Great, have they won much this year? mmm Malaysia Open err mmm. guess not. When we mention Jonas / Lars we expect them to win almost easily. But ours, it's like I do not have faith in them to win anything.

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    FEND

    I'm confused! For you sounded more like a Malaysian thatn a Bruneian!

    Jug8man

    Please give FEND a chance to have some leeway. If he admires Yong and feels happy about receiving his shirt, let it be, esp when he is supposed to be studying for his exam now.

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    FEND

    I'm confused! For you sounded more like a Malaysian thatn a Bruneian!

    Jug8man

    Please give FEND a chance to have some leeway. If he admires Yong and feels happy about receiving his shirt, let it be, esp when he is supposed to be studying for his exam now.

    Cheers!
    Loh, if you want to know why I'm more of a malaysian well it's because I am . Malaysian Chinese, born in Selangor, mom from malacca, dad from pahang. They came to brunei for job opportunities around 20 - 23 years back. SInce then I've been living here all my life, but have been patriotic to malaysia. I go back to Malaysia every year without fail, as there's no place like home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FEND.
    With respect to your statement. On point 5, our wealth and knowledge + specialisation is almost nothing compared to the rest of the world. When I mean rest of the world, I do not mean the West. I am talking of Japan, Korea, China, SINGPOARE and stuff. NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN SURVIVE BEING A GENERALIST. Believe me I know. If you want to know why it's the same principle as it is in Economics. I would not go and touch on it now. If we are so good, why have we had to play catch up in terms of technology? Better education? Infrastructure? International Trade? Malaysia is not a country full of what I would term 'pro' people. However we do have people who can be 'pro.' However our people here do not even know how to get there. Want an example? Intel. Nvidia. ATI. AMD. IBM. Microsoft. Do you possibly think that we would've invented all these first? No history has shown it. Our way of laid back thinking and as mahathir calls something like 'kais pagi makan pagi, kais malam makan malam' english translation : work morning eat in the morning, work at night eat at night, but the meaning is clear. We only work just to satisfy our immediate wants. We do not seem to care about progress as the rest of the world.

    This does not only apply to sports in our country but rather the other parts like our economy and stuff. Without outside help, we would be stuck in a padigram which will limit us and push us back into the stone age. Unless Malaysia opens up to the new ideas, we will be what the malays call 'seperti katak di bawah tempurong' which means like a frog under an empty half coconut shell. Meaning : One who is narrow minded. As the frog only sees so little, it thinks only so little. Do you think also that we would be able to launch measat the satelite into orbit? Without russian technology? Hell no.

    Same goes with our country. Without innovators like Mahathir we would be almost no where. Who would've heard bout malaysia?

    We can only do so much for our sports in malaysia. if we want to improve the only way is to get some new faces in to share new ideas. What's wrong with accepting other ideas especially if those ideas are good ones?

    mmm.

    if you can show misbun 1/2 the respect you gave Tun Dr Mahatir, we would not be having this difference in opinion. you are proud of one, but you shoot down another. im not saying misbun has contributed as much as TDM but the effort put in should be appreciated, supported, and not trampled down on.

    there's nothing wrong about looking for outside speciality. we malaysian have been doing this for years have you not noticed. so much for the hooohaaaa of foreign expertise. park JB, china coaches, etc and they get paid sickeningly too much compared to what the local, equaly capabled counterparts. do you know how much this outflow of currency hurts our economy. especially if these 'foreign experts' turn out to be nothing else but a 'white elephant'.

    you have confused the definition of specialization. since Malaysia (china, indonesia and others) are not specialized in tech, it is only obvious that we play catch up with the rest. but if we are specialized in something (like lets say to a great degree badminton) why should we play catch up with other countries that have less success or about the same only. the notion of sharing knowledge is always welcomed of course.

    european countries (unless you havent noticed) have been doing catching up in badminton with countries like Malaysia and Indonesia for the past 20+ (and are succeding well) years and what does Malaysia do? they hire Morten Frost and pay him a sick-sick amount. how does that make you feel about your value as a malaysian compared to the great foreigners? i have no bone to pick with morten, i think he is a great player in his time but what great wonder did he do for malaysia? does the benefit of him being in malaysia justify the fee he received? what incredible credentials did he have as a coach to be begged to come to malaysia? what superb/monumental/great achievement did he have since then till now as a coach that justifies the belittlement/beminisculement of his malaysian counterparts?

    you know the answer.

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