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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy
    Her name is He Zhili.

    To me, if she really wants to do "true matches", fine, do it on the 1st day. Do it when she 1st ever being selected to a team. However, she did not. She received the favor (according to the rumors) when the result is favorable to her, but suddenly sneak attacked her teammate(s) when it's her turn to sacrifice.

    To me, this is the biggest loser ever.
    hehehe I got it, so whatever considered as cheating before and after the game never bring "fairness feeling" to all people that involved or not!
    So, all the people involved in the cheating plan are all L.O.S.E.R basically. Now we can conclude LYB is... a LOSER? hahaha. jk.

    It depends on your own point of view. And moreover it doesn't matter to debate about unnecessary things, loser or not we do not know 100%, the fact is LYB managed to succeed his plan, and it cannot be changed forever.

    If you want to make him being a loser, you must defeat his dream team like what happened in JO 2004 and TC 2002. I hope Indonesian, Danish, and Korean players could give some very big lessons to LYB....

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bresis
    if LYB is the biggest loser, wat about Misbun?? After speaking of the possibility of winning the first gold medal for Malaysia, the badminton team came home empty handed without a single medal who is worse? lyb or misbun?

    I agree. I think Misbun is going to lose his job, but not LYB.

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lau Kok Wei
    No matter what happened then, i still feel it is such a shame if the rumours turn out to be true. I mean there shouldn't be terms such as 'sacrifice' or 'help' or whatsoever in sports.

    Athletes should try their best competing against whoever.

    Mind u, to me this is disgraceful and shame to the Chinese team.
    Consider the Tour de France, where the US postal team members sacrificed their own chances to win to help Lance Armstrong win all of those times. Is that shameful and disgraceful?

    Badminton is an individual sport, but athletes also arrive at the Olympics as a single team, representing the same country. LYB probably would like to maximize the glory for his team, by bringing back the most gold and overall number of medals. In certain cases, it may be best for him to have certain matchups and combinations in his favour in order to achieve that goal. Winning 3 golds, and 5/15 medals - definitely not the loser.

    Personally, I think it is most disappointing for the Malaysian team.

  4. #21
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    Biggest loser?

    I would say people who missed good matches are all losers.....especially in the US, NBC has little respect to badminton. They cut and cancel badminton programs very frequently, they don't show you a replay when there is a commercial, and They only show the US team at earlier rounds, which is less exciting than other players.

    So, people in the US do have a hard time on watching badminton matches on TV, the coverage is small, the quality isn't great, and even the commentators are annoying sometimes.

    Hope they could improve some........if that would ever happen

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lau Kok Wei

    Athletes should try their best competing against whoever.
    To the fans, yeah, we paid the ticket, we want to see the best. Is that possible everytime? No...

    Let me ask you the same question, if you are not just a fan, but the player. Would you give out your best to beat other players to capture the honor for ur team/nation, or you want to use all ur energy on ur fellow teammates, and further limit the chances for both ppl in next round?

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealMad
    I'm sorry but regardless of whose turn it was to "sacrifice" this goes against my every sporting principle. This is basically why I will never support a Chinese team in any competition.

    I don't like the idea that any competitor can be asked to stand down from a possible win or upset just because another player is determined to have a better chance to go all the way to the championship and it would be better for that "better" player to not work hard so that they're more rested against someone from another country who had to battle at every match to get to where they are.
    1. If you agree to enter a "system" (i.e. agree to take turns when it counts), you should apply your word when it counts. If you don't like the idea at all, say "NO" before join the team. Not like say "yeah" all the time, when you receive the favor, but suddenly acting like "being honest" or "respect sportsmanship" when you have to give up something...

    2. It's the players hardwork result into "better chance". Not the "better chance" make a "joe club" type of players like me to be good enough to win WC.

    3. Damn, do I have to repeat all my debates in "CHN strategy" thread(s) again???
    3.1 More rest? I can counter argue say, player A got 3 tougher opponents in earlier round, but player B got 3 weaker opponents in earlier round, so, when A plays B is not fair???
    3.2 Want your tickets worth? Let's sue pay-per-view for boxing matches. We pay $30 looking forward for 12 round close match, but so many of them ended in 2 rounds with KO... Maybe I should ask for $25 refund???
    3.3 Same as 3.2, if NBA games, a team leads by 30 points, you will see all rookie vs bench for the next 20 min or so. But where are my favorite all stars? Where are the last second buzzer beaters??? Well, too bad...

    Ok, ok, I don't want to repeat all my old "stories"...

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealMad
    I'm sorry but regardless of whose turn it was to "sacrifice" this goes against my every sporting principle.

    In baseball, there's "sacrifice fly" and "sacrifice bunt" as a very useful and widely used strategy. Perfectly legal and useful when you are desprated for a run.

    If a "true" sportsman like you in this situation, what you do? Be man enough to "let me take every swing for a Home Run"??? Plz...

    In other sports, like gymnastics, cycling, racing, diving, etc, there's strategy of "sacrifice lead", means teammates take the "un-necessary" lead in earlier stage(s) / round(s) to bring up extra mental pressure on opponents. Either they will lose their cool to make mistakes, or they will waste their energy when it NOT counts. This way, the team's main player will have better chance to win.

    So, to you, they all shameless ppl, since that's not "sportsmanship". But, are they really not true competitors???

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy
    In baseball, there's "sacrifice fly" and "sacrifice bunt" as a very useful and widely used strategy. Perfectly legal and useful when you are desprated for a run.

    If a "true" sportsman like you in this situation, what you do? Be man enough to "let me take every swing for a Home Run"??? Plz...

    In other sports, like gymnastics, cycling, racing, diving, etc, there's strategy of "sacrifice lead", means teammates take the "un-necessary" lead in earlier stage(s) / round(s) to bring up extra mental pressure on opponents. Either they will lose their cool to make mistakes, or they will waste their energy when it NOT counts. This way, the team's main player will have better chance to win.

    So, to you, they all shameless ppl, since that's not "sportsmanship". But, are they really not true competitors???
    That's not the same thing and you know it. Baseball sacrifices are for the good of the team, which you're on. So at least you're helping your own cause. If I were to make a smash for placement so that my partner can make the easy kill on the weak return, that's fine and that's much closer to the argument you're making.

    For my team to stand down though before the match even starts however is a different matter altogether. That's why there was such a big stink in F1 when Barichello actually stopped before reaching the finish line to allow Schumacher to pass him for the win. That's just wrong.

    It's even more wrong in badminton where no one else plays the game with national team tactics. Lundgaard & Eriksen are not going to let Paaske & Rasmussen walk by them if they meet in the semis, just because the danish coach thinks that Paaske & Rasmussen would be better in the finals and they could use an easy match beforehand.

    Even the lowliest underdog, so long as they're in the competition, has the right to compete. Otherwise, what's the point?

  9. #26
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    There are two kinds of international competitions, ones that stress individual achievements and ones that stress national achievements. The Summer Olympics competition obviously belongs more to the later. When some one wins the gold in Athens, you are more likely to hear it reported as "Malaysia captures gold", or "Hong Kong wins gold medal" or something like that. In this respect, it is valid, acctually smart for any head coach to maximize his national team's chance to gold. I found it nothing immoral for a head coach to ask members of his team to lose so someone else who has a better chance for gold to move on. I bet this might have happened in the match between Zhang Ning and Zhou Mi in the WS semis. On the other hand, when the gold medal match is between members of the same team, the coach should stay clear of it. This was indeed what happened at the WD final. So LYB was OK on this aspect at this Olympics competition.

    As whether he is a loser or not. He is not. But I fault him on two issues: Firstly, he should have chosen Xia XZ in stead of Chen Hong. LYB underestimated the psychological stress and immense pressure his young men were facing. The pressence of oldie Xia XZ would have helped. Chen Hong has weak mental control, the fact that in both of the 3-sets matches that he won he lost the second game by a wide margin reflects on that. Secondly, he did not prepare Lin Dan well enough for the first match. If you thought Lin Dan deserved some spanking, do it before the competition, not after!

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybiscuit03
    There are two kinds of international competitions, ones that stress individual achievements and ones that stress national achievements. The Summer Olympics competition obviously belongs more to the later. When some one wins the gold in Athens, you are more likely to hear it reported as "Malaysia captures gold", or "Hong Kong wins gold medal" or something like that. In this respect, it is valid, acctually smart for any head coach to maximize his national team's chance to gold. I found it nothing immoral for a head coach to ask members of his team to lose so someone else who has a better chance for gold to move on. I bet this might have happened in the match between Zhang Ning and Zhou Mi in the WS semis. On the other hand, when the gold medal match is between members of the same team, the coach should stay clear of it. This was indeed what happened at the WD final. So LYB was OK on this aspect at this Olympics competition.

    As whether he is a loser or not. He is not. But I fault him on two issues: Firstly, he should have chosen Xia XZ in stead of Chen Hong. LYB underestimated the psychological stress and immense pressure his young men were facing. The pressence of oldie Xia XZ would have helped. Chen Hong has weak mental control, the fact that in both of the 3-sets matches that he won he lost the second game by a wide margin reflects on that. Secondly, he did not prepare Lin Dan well enough for the first match. If you thought Lin Dan deserved some spanking, do it before the competition, not after!
    Agree with you on the first point. In 'team' competitions like olympics it is generally the country that gets the glory... no matter who wins. However when you consider the World Championships, that should be another matter alltogether. So was what LYB doing wrong? Not this time but I think he was wrong at the WC and will continue to be wrong in future competitions.

    I don't quite see why you are putting Chen Hong down? Wasn't he the only chinese MS player to get past the early rounds? And looking at his draw, getting past Kenneth Johanssen and Lee Chong Wei in successive matches is no easy feat. Shon SM has defeated him in their last meeting so perhaps it is his style of play that troubles Chen Hong? Also, don't forget that Shon went on to win the silver medal. Personally I thought Chen Hong did well.

  11. #28
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    agreed. If XiaZX was chosen over LD, bao or chen hong, we would never be certain of the outcome either. Everyone love to have a second shot or a replay but that's only happen in video game, a fantasy world. Live & learn from the results and move on.

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealMad
    That's not the same thing and you know it. Baseball sacrifices are for the good of the team, which you're on. So at least you're helping your own cause.
    My baseball example is more like "why I should sacrifice my own stats? why can't next batter do the fly or bunt"...

    If everyone just think about "me, me, me" or "ok, for the team, but let someone else do it..." or "I like my team, i like myself even more, so, let me keep it win win by let others be 'dumb'", etc... For such above, you know what I am going to say...

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    agreed. If XiaZX was chosen over LD, bao or chen hong, we would never be certain of the outcome either. Everyone love to have a second shot or a replay but that's only happen in video game, a fantasy world. Live & learn from the results and move on.
    I agree. It's not fair to compare the real outcome with the "what if"...

    I am a Xia fan, but I agree that if Xia got selected but under-achieved, then many Chen's fans will start the same argument like, "see, LYB is stupid, he should send Chen instead of Xia..."

  14. #31
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    if LYB is the biggest loser, wat about Misbun?? After speaking of the possibility of winning the first gold medal for Malaysia, the badminton team came home empty handed without a single medal who is worse? lyb or misbun?

    I think the biggest "loser" is the head coach for Russia Women Volleyball team.

    I haven't see this demotivator in this games. He scolded his team in front of the camera. He shouted at them during the games. He even yelled at their name those who make mistakes during the games however all of them pretend they never heard him.

    Even the panel members who sat behind him was shaking his head.
    I think this coach is a big "loser."

    You are not motivating your team and also destroy their pride and confidence to play.

    Russia went down to China 3-0.

    The captain for the team get scolded like nobody business....

    I wonder why he still can sustain his job....

  15. #32
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    A coach can make or break an athlete. Look what happened to Taufik when Mulyo left the stable... Taufik then was in a slump , and i'm sure as a coach Mulyo did felt bad about it.. when When Coach Mulyo came back and train Taufik.. see what happens?

    Anyway its not fair to say that LYB is a loser.. he played his part as a coach.. same goes to Misbun.. it takes 2 hands to clap. Its the understanding between Player and Coach.

  16. #33
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    The biggest loser, IMO, is us, the audience. The regulation only have 8 seeds and force the top player combat in very early stage which not in their top form. In fact, if the final was Taufik vs Lin Dan, it would be very interested and excited. Of course, I'm not the fan of Chinese National Team and I'm glad Taufik defeats Korean but I'd like to see two energic players combat for Gold medal.

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashguy
    The biggest loser, IMO, is us, the audience. The regulation only have 8 seeds and force the top player combat in very early stage which not in their top form. In fact, if the final was Taufik vs Lin Dan, it would be very interested and excited. Of course, I'm not the fan of Chinese National Team and I'm glad Taufik defeats Korean but I'd like to see two energic players combat for Gold medal.
    well said and agreed

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