Thank you tennis.

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by KidDynamite, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Regular Member

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    I hadn't played badminton in about 5 months since last season. And last season I couldn't smash or clear at all. Horrible technique and generated almost no power.

    Then it was spring and I started playing tennis again, and majorly worked on my serve.

    Yesterday was the first time I played badminton in a while since my club started again. I could clear with ease and smash a ton harder. And I can finally make the 'pok' sound when I hit it. Thanks tennis.
     
  2. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    very interesting as it support a post i'm about to write in the thread badminton versus tennis. :)
     
  3. altreality

    altreality Regular Member

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    I am a little surprised it helped with your clears as well - I play both often and always try to disapply my strokes for badminton in tennis ....

    My problem is with the racket face..... we take most badminton shots with an open face but in tennis most shots are closed (smahes excluded)
     
  4. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

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    Some interestign things i've noticed

    Playing badminton made my tennis footwork much better

    but playing Tennis made my Badminton footwork alot worse
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Also Serving in Tennis (especially practing my serve) - made my smash in badminton a bit stronger - but not as much as i was hoping.
     
  5. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

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    and also several times where i played badminton later in the day (after tennis) - i didn't find it messed up my game as much as many people have said

    i have met people who say tennis screws up your badminton skills - and it did feel this perhaps for the first 10 minutes - but after that i was easily able to feel natural again on teh badminton court.
     
  6. Bobatea

    Bobatea Regular Member

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    It's easier to adjust from Tennis -> Badminton than it is from Badminton -> Tennis. With the first, you're switching to a lighter racquet and a lighter object you have to hit with and hit. Tennis takes more time to adjust to because of the fact that everything is just heavier and you're also not used to dealing with the factor of 'spin' on the object you're trying to hit. Tennis can help your badminton game in only a few aspects. The reason why you're probably feeling that you can hit your clears better is the fact that your forearm has gotten stronger and how much lighter the badminton racquet feels. You can whip out a lot more power because you've increased the forearm muscle. Smash power also increases because of that. Serving in tennis has also increased your ability to hit clears and smashes because with serving in tennis, you work on your timing and hitting it out in front of you to get the angle and generate more power from your body's momentum. Tennis has increased your muscle a bit to be able to hit the bird harder, but I believe that the timing you've gained from serving in tennis has increased your ability in hitting your shots in Badminton. You're just able to use the most of your body better than others to generate your power :) (same idea as using a squash racquet for practice). Most tennis players can't smash harder than badminton players even though they can serve 120+ mph (having trouble figuring out how to explain why). The timing for your shots has definitely increased your ability to hit better shots.

    As for footwork, badminton will help your tennis footwork because you're used to moving around a lot. You're able to move quickly and react better to a tennis shot because you're used to taking on 100+ mph badminton smashes constantly and reacting to drop shots. Tennis has probably made your badminton footwork worse because of the fact that in Tennis you probably realized that you have to move a little less. Badminton is quicker than Tennis, so when playing Tennis you probably slowed down your movements. Plus, you're not moving forward and backward constantly. In Tennis, a lot of your shots are done moving left and right. Rarely do you move forward and backward to hit shots.

    My opinion on this from my own experience :)
     
    #6 Bobatea, Sep 11, 2004
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2004
  7. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Regular Member

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    It has nothing to do with my wrist strength because I'm a bodybuilder, and I've always had alot more strength than your average badminton player.

    I think it's because I've learned to use all of my muscles in my stroke, and maybe a bit of timing.
     
  8. New_Guy04

    New_Guy04 Regular Member

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    weird, since my story is kinda the same. i haven't played golf for about 2 years. after i played badminton for that 2 years, my arm muscles developed ALOT! b4 i played badminton, my golf shots were 'okay'. 'bout 200 yards witha a driver... but NOW!~ i can hit that much distance with a FAIRWAY WOOD! and i had one session, just me and my dad.. i used his clubs that i wasn't very familiar with, and i just blew AWAY! of course, not sure exactly how far my shots went since it was dark, but WOW! that was like my ONLY session, and i haven't had one since than, but it was AMAZING!!! of course, i like badminton MUCH better than golf, so i wouldn't say i played badminton to improve my golf game, it's sort of a 'bi-product'. anyways, i wouldn't like to thank tennis, but thank YOU badminton.:)
     
  9. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Muscles & badminton

    Muscle fibers come in several varieties: Type 1 fibers are slow twitch muscles that are used for endurance (such as marathon running). Type 2 fibers are fast twitch muscles. Type 2b fibers are the fastest, but dont have much in the way of endurance. These are the type of fibers that are dominant in sprinters & athletes that can jump very high. Type 2a fibers are not as fast as type 2b fibers (but posses more endurance than 2a muscles).

    The muscles developed by bodybuilders are primarily Type 2a muscle fibers. Olympic power lifters have more explosive power (aka speed strength) than bodybuilders and would have some 2a fibers but more 2b fibers than most bodybuilders

    A high % of Type 2b muscle fibers are needed for the explosiveness needed for badminton. We don't really have wrist muscles (but do have tendons that run from the forearm to the hand). Badminton players benefit from a good % of 2b fast twitch fibers in the forearm, triceps, deltiods as well a legs and abs (for turning the trunk of the body).
     
  10. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    open vs. closed

    I would not characterize most tennis shots being hit with a closed face. Lobs, (regular) volleys & underspin groundstrokes are actually hit with an open racket face. Topspin groundstrokes not usually hit with a closed face either. Most topspin shots are hit with a fairly neutral orientation (the racket face is pretty much perpendicular to the court surface). Serves are fairly close to neutral on contact as well.

    Tennis overheads in the forecourt are hit with a closed face while overheads hit in the backcourt are closer to neutral. The racket face might be closed on certain attacking midcourt groundstokes. This happens when the ball is taken fairly high and the ball is still on the rise. If these criteria are not met the ball usually ends up in the net if the racket face is closed.

    In badminton, underhand strokes are hit with an open face. Overhand strokes can be hit with a closed face (for the smash) or an open face (for clears). Something close to neutral is used for drives, whereas the face might be slightly open for push shots (esp when contacted below the top o' the net).
     
  11. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Tennis serves & badminton smashes

    Tennis serves can sometimes hurt your badminton smashes...

    Tennis serves are generally hit with some amount of spin (usually some comination of topspin & sidespin). Even fairly flat first serves have some spin, but not as much as 2nd serves. As a lefty, I tend to exploit my lefty spins quite a bit and don't hit a lot of flat serves at all.

    Tennis overheads in the forecourt should, however, usually be hit as flat as possible to maximize speed/power. Side spin might be employed when angling a smash away ffrom an opponent. In the backcourt, a smash might have some topspin employed to make sure it lands in the green.

    When I went from tennis back to badminton after a long hiatus, I found that my badminton smashes were not as fast as they were before. After a while, it occured to me that I was no longer hitting the shuttle squarely... I was imparting too much spin to it as I would for a tennis serve. This, of course, robbed me of the power I was looking for in my badminton smashes.

    After recognizing & correctling the problem (after a bit of retraining my muscles), I was able to hit better badminton smashes. This carried over to my tennis game... since we get to hit a lot more overhead strokes in badminton than we do in tennis, my tennis serves & smashes benefitted considerably from resuming my badminton.

    My tennis volleys and quickness at the net (esp in tennis doubs) also benefitted from badminton. Badminton footwork helped a bit in tennis (altho' much of the footwork is different). My tennis footwork did not louse up my badm footwork at all... one aspect actually helped. I found that the split step taught & used prolifically in tennis can also be used quite effectively in badminton.

    Power vs Strength:

    Just wanted to clarify my use of terms in previous post about Muscles & badminton. Power has been defined as speed strength... the explosive strength (delivered by Type 2b fast twitch muscles) employed to jump high, throw far or hit a 200 mph badm smash.

    Usually when we speak of strength, we are talking about brute strength (the type of semi-static strength often developed by bodybuilders). We are not necessarily speaking of power (explosive strength).
     
    #11 SystemicAnomaly, Sep 13, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2004
  12. Bobatea

    Bobatea Regular Member

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    Hehe. I agree with a lot of what gregr999 says. I've played against a few people that look like giants to me (muscle wise) and they seem like they can bench me x 2. But what I notice is that they put their entire being in their smashes and really just tire themselves out and kill their shoulder. Like you said KD, it is really just timing, stroke, and knowing how to effectively use your body to generate a powerful smash without tiring and hurting yourself with brute strength :D

    What gregr999 said, the tennis serve can hurt your badminton game because you do slice in some form or another. You're used to putting spin on the ball. You don't really do that in badminton unless you're trying to do a cut drop. Tennis serve can only help you in timing and learning how to use your body's momentum/physics better to generate some more power.

    As for badminton footwork, the split step is definitely very handy. If you watch the pros play, you will see that they use the split step. Your timing has to be more precise in tennis though, in my opinion, because you have a smaller area to cover with a very fast bird and players that use very deceptive shots (tennis can be deceptive too, but no where near as deceptive as badminton).
     
    #12 Bobatea, Sep 13, 2004
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2004
  13. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Split step timing

    Curious that you say that the split step timing needs to be more precise in tennis! I actually have a much tougher time in timing my split step for certain situations in badminton than I do for tennis. Specifically, when I hit a high singles serve (and sometimes a high deep clear) in badminton I often have difficulty in timing to my opponent's response, particularly when that player hits a very well disguised overhead drop. The disguise is a very important factor here.

    Other factors include the rhythm of your opponent & your own ability to clearly see the shuttle & your opponent when they are in the backcourt. Since I have problems seeing clearly in many gyms in this area, this last factor can be very important.

    With tennis, I find it fairly easy to determine the rhythm of my opponent and how fast their racket head speed will probably be at impact. In badminton, this can be quite a bit harder because of the higher degree of disguise regularly employed by high intermediate & advanced players. Such a player can delay their swing a split second or change the speed of their swing & throw off your ability to sync to their response.

    Since the action of your own split step is usually initiated a little bit before your opponent makes contact, a change in rhythm or racket head speed can throw you off moreso in badminton than in tennis.

    On another topic... You (Bobatea) had made a statement that it is easier to transition from tennis > badminton rather than going the other way. From my own experience & observations I have found this to be quite true.

    As long as your tennis strokes are somewhat mature or grooved, taking up badminton shouldn't hurt your tennis too much in the beginning. You will probably have pretty decent hand-eye from tennis that will help with badminton. Tennis serves, smashes & volleys can be adjusted to work in badminton with some training & practice. In the long run, I've found that badm has actually helped my tennis game quite a bit.

    I've seen a few very talented athletes that were able to transition from badminton to tennis w/o too much trouble. However, this appears to be the exception rather than the norm. Many badminton players find it very difficult to develop tennis skills initially. The biggest problem is usually with tennis groundstrokes. There really is no badminton counterpart to groundstrokes. The stroke mechanics that badminton players learn for hitting a shuttle can actually be considered bad habits when trying to hit a tennis groundstroke. Badminton players often find it difficult to maintain a firm wrist when trying to hit a tennis goundstroke. There can also be some diffs in how much forearm rotation & elbow articulation is employed.
     

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