Muscle type for badminton.

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by kwun, Jul 8, 2001.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    gregr mentioned in another thread the different muscle types. fast twitch and slow twitch. i forgot which one is which, but one is good for endurance, and the other for strength, right? my guess is fast is for strength, and slow is for endurance.

    i used to do a fair amount of long distance biking, which gave me a lot of slow twitch muscles. aside from the fact that the muscles used is of different type in badminton, i find the extra muscle not helpful in my badminton game. i am still slow. perhaps more long distance running is what i need.

    any one care to comment on which type of muscle is more suitable for badminton, fast or slow? and on which part of the body?

    does your playing style also dictate what muscle type is more suitable? in biking, there are the sprinters, who need to give out lots of strength in a very short amoutn of time, and they have more fast twitch muscles, the non-sprinters have slower twitch muscles as they tend to have more gradual output.

    are there similar thing in badminton?

    perhaps singles players have more slow twitch and doubles players have more fast twitch?
     
  2. Kelvin

    Kelvin Regular Member

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    I think I'm in the middle of that... if there's such thing, because I am able to generate massive amounts of power from my smallish frame, and yet still able to stand a fair amount of playing highly intensive games.

    Could be because I do other physical activities as well... not sure.
    I do know that my lungs can carry a larger capacity of air, than most of the people my height, and size; because I'm active most of the rest of the time that I'm away from my computer except when I'm sleeping.
    That probably explains the greater oxygen flow to my muscles allowing me to last longer in my games?

    I guess more than anything, it would be a combination of all the muscles, and parts of the body working together in order to have us function effectively in this sport, and any sport.
    I think I just went off topic, but I'm sure that this doesn't just apply to badminton.

    I'm still thinking that the mental aspect of the player is the most important; because at the international level; the top players all pretty much have equal skill levels. As those thousands of hours of training show.
    It's the brain that has to control all the body functions; kinda like the matrix... without the mind the body wont survive.
    but that's a whole new can of worms.

    To sum up all my rambling...
    I guess you need a good combination of both the slow twitch, and fast twitch muscles in order to be a good all around player.
    It's clear that the doubles players are more of fast twitch, and the singles are more slow twitch muscle types.
     
  3. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    twitch factor

    As I recall there are 3 type of muscle fibers:
    slow-twitch (Type I, red fibers)
    fast-twitch, aerobic (Type II-a, aka intermediate twitch)
    fast-twitch, anerobic (Type II-b, white fibers)

    Note that names indicate the contraction rate and not necessarily the movement speed. We all have all 3 muscle fiber types. Genetics tends to dictate the ratio of slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibers that make up your muscles. You can develop your fast or slow-twitch muscles but it is not certain if you can (significantly) change the ratio that you were born with.

    The slow-twitch are used for endurance and for posture. Marathon runners have a high % of slow twitch muscles in their legs. Fast-twitch are the ones that are are optimized for speed & strength moves of short duration; altho' they respond rapidly they tend to fatigue much more easily than the slow-twitch fibers. The muscles of the eyes are fast twitch. A sprinter may have 80% fast-twitch fibers whereas an endurance athlete may have 80% slow-twitch.

    I'm not absolutley certain, but I believe it is primarily the intermediate fast-twitch type (II-a) that most bodybuilders develop to bulk up.

    I would speculate that badminton would require a high % of fast (II-b) fibers in the arms and shoulders and probably a good mix of slow & fast fibers in the legs. Those players with tons of muscle stamina might have more slow-twitch in their legs whereas someone jumped well and moved quickly may have more of the fast fibers. If a player seems to have it all (speed, jumping ability & leg endurance), then they undoubtedly have a good mix and have developed what they were born with.

    Elite badminton players do tend to have well developed leg muscles. Aerobic exercise or long distance running could certainly help your legs, lungs & heart. However, you also need some strength development (for the legs) , interval training (for stop & go fitness) and plyometrics (for jumping & quick directional changes).



    If white men can't jump, it is probably a matter of twitch.
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Re: twitch factor

    I thought that bodybuilders worked on slow twitch muscles as they tend to work on pure strength. Strength is not needed in badminton, you need power which is slightly different.

    I think badminton players mainly need the two types of fast twitch muscles. Shot production jumping and stop/starting requires type II-b anaerobic muscles and movement requires type I-a aerobic muscles. Slow twitch is needed for carrying racket bag!
     
  5. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Re: twitch factor

    My first thought was that body builders developed primarily their slow twitch fibers. However, after doing some investigation, I found that this is not true. Altho' they can do some work on slow twitch fibers their biggest gains in bulk & strength come from development of the fast fibers. Slow fibers aren't as strong & just don't grow very big. Just look at the legs of marathon runners.
     
  6. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Re: twitch factor

    My memory is really getting bad. As far as I can remember from my physiology classes, a person is born with a composition of slow and fast twitch fibers in their muscles. The explosive ability of each individual depends on the amount of fast twitch fibers that is available in the muscles and they can't be increased. As we grow older fast twitch fibers (first the type II and later type I) will gradually turn into slow twitch fibers. In that reason is possible to train to a marathonist but not a sprinter. But I believe this part could be much better explained but Doctor Cheung.
     
  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Re: twitch factor

    For your first point, Greg's has a good explanation.
    The second point, I need to research it but it seems logical.

    If the information doesn't exist, I wonder how many pro badminton players will allow me to take a core biopsy of their leg muscles so that I can produce a research paper?
     
  8. marshall

    marshall Regular Member

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    Re: twitch factor

    Before you write your paper, take a look at the biopsy results from the Danish team's research, published in Physical Training for Badminton, available from the IBF office. They took samples of muscle tissue under various conditions, often going right on to the court to find out about muscle behavior under game conditions.

    As an added treat, the book has photos of Hoyer-Larsen wearing an apparatus strapped to his back with a breathing tube going to his mouth. This was part of an oxygen-uptake experiment. Somewhere in the text is a comment on the difficulty of getting players to wear such equipment during a game, hence the scarcity of oxygen-uptake data under actual game conditions. Also, this might explain why the only guy shown wearing this stuff is Hoyer-Larsen, a well-known good sport.
     
  9. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    change?

    most sources say that fiber types do not change from slow to fast or vice versa. however, one technical source that i've come across says that this may not be necessarily so. but i think the implication was that it is MAY be somewhat rare for a change for a change to occur. the jury is still out on this one.

    on the other hand, the relative conditioning (& chemistrty) of each type could very well change.
     
  10. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Research

    More research on this subject soulnd like a great idea. My knowledge is hardly complete. Some of the info that
    I've come across violates intuition; worse yet, some of it is contradictory. Perhaps you could shed some light.
     
  11. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Clarification/confusion

    Slow twitch is possibly needed in badminton for mucscle endurance. To reiterate, these fibers also are needed for posture and may be helpful with balance. It is NOT the slow twitch muscles that bulk up. Remember, the fast twitch fibers do not have as much endurance (especially the II-b type) but they are larger fibers & do have the potential to bulk up more than the slow ones.

    The terms slow- and fast- twitch are a bit confusing. They actually refer to the speed of contraction NOT the speed of the movement involved. It's a chemical thing. In other words, some fast-twitch fibers may or may not give you fast movement.

    To add to the confusion, I found one source that says that bodybuilders tend to develop mostly their intermediate fast-twitch (II-a) fibers while Olympic powerlifter develop more of the type II-b fast twitch muscles.

    There is a new there form of weightlifting called Super-Slow lifting. It tends to fatigue the muscles with very slow lifting motions. I'd be willing to bet that it involves more of the slow-twitch (enduarance) fibers than conventional lifting.

    Perhaps badminton players could use some of this for their leg muscle endurance. On the other hand, players also need to develop explosive movements. Plyometrics and fast lifting could help with this.
     
  12. Kelvin

    Kelvin Regular Member

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    Re: twitch factor

    Ask an old guy... maybe Fung... :lol:
    JK
    No offense Fung.
     
  13. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Re: change?

    i've done more reading on the subject. it seems that there is a type II-c fast-twitch fiber than can be trained for either slow twitch (type I) or fast-twitch (II-b) use.

    More info to come on the Twitch Factor... (stay tuned)
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Re: twitch factor

    If players can use weights and play practice matches, just think of what that contraption can do to their conditioning.
    Haven't seen the book but it's like a huge big box, correct?
     

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