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  1. #2585
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    LD is a grown-up person, and is eventually like everyone else, responsible for his actions. But the situation cannot be so neatly packaged and presented. It is far more complex. I think we all at some level, appreciate that.

    A player like LD is subject to many different force vectors in his professional life. The vectors are formed early in childood, and the inculcation of values are very thorough. Sometimes, these values may not necessarily have the same priority level as those that many of us in the "free world" know. But rather than pass judgement on those values, (the "free world" is far less than perfect!) we should focus on the framework of reference.

    A pro player takes pride in his achievements. He does not want to walk away from an engagement or a challenge if he can help it. The kind of pressure and various mental/psychological/financial vectors that come into play to force such a person into a contrary course of action... you need to ask yourself what you would do if you were is such a situation.

    LD, and many others like him, are the symptom of the real issues. They are pawns in the game.

    It takes a person with an exceptional strength of character and rounded emotional development to fight the system openly. I can't really blame LD if he is not one; I just have to face the fact and move on. For all I know, maybe he does try to fight the system on the inside or influence it. As we know, the results take a long time coming.

    Corruption; mismanagement; factionalism; misplaced values. These are to be found in abundance in associations of other countries as well. And truthfully: if LD is a baby, what the hell is LCW? At least LD can take refuge in the fact that he belongs to a strict socialist/communist system and has to slot into the hierarchy. LCW comes from a democratic country, is a superstar, can make markets rise and fall; and he doesn't have the spine to stand by his own convictions. Taufik for all his shortcomings, didn't compromise on his beliefs.

    All idols have feet of clay. Because humans make the idols from the earth.
    When you say LCW does not have the spine to stand by his won convictions, which case are you referring to ?

    Besides, why brought up LCW and Taufik in in Lin dan thread?

  2. #2586
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    it's quiet, not 'quite'.
    and cannot is ONE, not 2 words unfortunately.
    how's that for contributions?
    Ha Ha! Thank you for your contribution. But do I care?

  3. #2587
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    it's quiet, not 'quite'.and cannot is ONE, not 2 words unfortunately.how's that for contributions?
    Hahaha.... above should be in the joke's corner

  4. #2588
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    Hahaha.... above should be in the joke's corner
    No. No. No. CONTRIBUTION corner. Ha ha! We can not undermine Alan right? Oh sorry! CANNOT.

  5. #2589
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victory View Post
    When you say LCW does not have the spine to stand by his won convictions, which case are you referring to ?

    Besides, why brought up LCW and Taufik in in Lin dan thread?
    All top players have the burden of expectations; they handle this burden in different ways, given their unique circumstances, and besides, they are unique people as well. My intention is not to belittle one player while apologizing for another; it is only to illustrate that they are all humans and we must accept human frailty as a consequence. My last line of that post summarises that fact.

    My comment re. LCW was based on his actions during the time that Misbun had turned down the BAM offers to coach backup squad players. LCW had initially made it clear to everyone (including the press) that he would stand by MS even if it meant going independent, and at some time later (probably due to intervention/pressure/pursuasion from various people/groups) he retracted this stance. Many people were surprised; many others were not. Taufik, in a similar situation some years previously walked out in a show of complete support and faith for his coach and to hell with the consequences. It was his way of sticking to his values.

    So, I didn't bring up LCW or TH on a LD thread in an attempt to forment trouble. Rather, the opposite. Does it make one better than the other? My point is that beyond a point, it is unfair for any of us to pass judgement on these players. There are many more powerful people with many other reasons and interests (the "big picture" is often the excuse trotted out) who will use these players ruthlessly for their own purposes. The player's perceived actions are often a result of their helplessness/inability to impose thier own values on the situation. We all face the same things in our lives, if we have to be honest. We don't have thousands (millions?) of people throwing stones at us, simply because we have not accomplished what these guys have.

    Hope this clarifes...

  6. #2590
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    We need to occupy bwf... lol.

  7. #2591
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    All top players have the burden of expectations; they handle this burden in different ways, given their unique circumstances, and besides, they are unique people as well. My intention is not to belittle one player while apologizing for another; it is only to illustrate that they are all humans and we must accept human frailty as a consequence. My last line of that post summarises that fact.

    My comment re. LCW was based on his actions during the time that Misbun had turned down the BAM offers to coach backup squad players. LCW had initially made it clear to everyone (including the press) that he would stand by MS even if it meant going independent, and at some time later (probably due to intervention/pressure/pursuasion from various people/groups) he retracted this stance. Many people were surprised; many others were not. Taufik, in a similar situation some years previously walked out in a show of complete support and faith for his coach and to hell with the consequences. It was his way of sticking to his values.

    So, I didn't bring up LCW or TH on a LD thread in an attempt to forment trouble. Rather, the opposite. Does it make one better than the other? My point is that beyond a point, it is unfair for any of us to pass judgement on these players. There are many more powerful people with many other reasons and interests (the "big picture" is often the excuse trotted out) who will use these players ruthlessly for their own purposes. The player's perceived actions are often a result of their helplessness/inability to impose thier own values on the situation. We all face the same things in our lives, if we have to be honest. We don't have thousands (millions?) of people throwing stones at us, simply because we have not accomplished what these guys have.

    Hope this clarifes...

    Yes. It clarifies.

    You are seeing from the compassion point of view. Which is good.

    Lin Dan is a human. He is also part of CBA. Lin Dan is who he is and has achieved what he has achieved because he is part of CBA. As much talent as Lin Dan has, he is not super Dan if it is not because of CBA. If Lin Dan is in English team for example, he is just an English Dan. Nothing super at all. So yes I agree. You virtually can not separate LD from CBA.

    But How about seeing things this way.

    Lin Dan gain from being part of a very powerful system. He has got all the protection from LYB and other Chinese coaches. He has got high quality sparring partners that CBA can provide. He has got CL, CJ and others teammates to clear his way to the top in many matches especially in big matches. In short Lin Dan gain most from the system. As someone has pointed out earlier, Lin Dan is at the top of the food chain in CBA.

    Now, if CBA wants to play the way they are playing now, which is to instruct LD to throw in matches to help CL and CJ. And this antagonists the fans. Is it not fair for Lin Dan to shoulder most burden? Is it not fair for Lin Dan to take the blame for he IS the one that throw the matches right now? Even though it might be largely the will of CBA.

    Fair and square. No?

    You take, you have to give. Some how, some where and at the right time. It is always this way.

  8. #2592
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    Quote Originally Posted by extremenanopowe View Post
    We need to occupy bwf... lol.
    Ha Ha extreme. If we want to set up a committee for occupy bwf, I will propose you as the chairman. So don;t say my tongue lash is always aiming at you okay?

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    LD shd take CY/FHF as an example.............they also 4 times WC, but never WO so frequently.....!!

    Most importantly, CY/FHF wins Respect from all badminton fans.................!!

  10. #2594
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    who does CY/FHF has to WO to??
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonmarc View Post
    LD shd take CY/FHF as an example.............they also 4 times WC, but never WO so frequently.....!!

    Most importantly, CY/FHF wins Respect from all badminton fans.................!!

  11. #2595
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdemon View Post
    who does CY/FHF has to WO to??
    Yes, and they still on top of the world..........without WO from team-mates and played every round without wo until final and still wins...................!!

  12. #2596
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victory View Post
    Yes. It clarifies.

    You are seeing from the compassion point of view. Which is good.

    Lin Dan is a human. He is also part of CBA. Lin Dan is who he is and has achieved what he has achieved because he is part of CBA. As much talent as Lin Dan has, he is not super Dan if it is not because of CBA. If Lin Dan is in English team for example, he is just an English Dan. Nothing super at all. So yes I agree. You virtually can not separate LD from CBA.

    But How about seeing things this way.

    Lin Dan gain from being part of a very powerful system. He has got all the protection from LYB and other Chinese coaches. He has got high quality sparring partners that CBA can provide. He has got CL, CJ and others teammates to clear his way to the top in many matches especially in big matches. In short Lin Dan gain most from the system. As someone has pointed out earlier, Lin Dan is at the top of the food chain in CBA.

    Now, if CBA wants to play the way they are playing now, which is to instruct LD to throw in matches to help CL and CJ. And this antagonists the fans. Is it not fair for Lin Dan to shoulder most burden? Is it not fair for Lin Dan to take the blame for he IS the one that throw the matches right now? Even though it might be largely the will of CBA.

    Fair and square. No?

    You take, you have to give. Some how, some where and at the right time. It is always this way.
    I have no argument with what you just said. You may want to read some of my own earlier posts in this thread. I am not an apologist for LD. My point is not necessarily a compassionate one either (I'm flattered you think so, though! )

    The nub of the issue is, no matter how much you curse LD and boo him, it won't make a difference to the end result; if the decision has been made for him to take a particular course of action, and if LD's mental makeup will direct him to follow the orders he has been given and to appreciate the reasoning for those orders, you can shout until you're blue in the face. Maybe one day when he has retired and looks back on it all with an objective, more open-minded view, he may regret, and at that time may do something by way of atonement. But that won't change the reality of today. The reality is that he is taking orders. Just as LCW is taking orders. Both are doing it for better or worse.

    Why? Their 24/7 focus is on their game, and on the additional ambassadorial activities that go with becomng a superstar. (and that opens up another massive debate on responsibilities of being a role model! ) They have to trust someone else to do all the other thinking/planning/scheduling/deciding/strategizing for them. Again I emphasize, it takes a very exceptional kind of person and maybe exceptional circumstances to come out strongly and firmly against this kind of fixing. He Zhili was the exception; she was also willing to pay the price; and she paid the price, big-time. Do you really expect every second superstar to do that?

    Meanwhile, we can make our displeasure known. But far better would be to bring pressure to bear on the institutions that make the rules, to ensure that it cleans up its act. Look at it this way. If you give less opportuity for someone to commit an illegal act, the "deterrent" becomes the "detergent."

  13. #2597
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    .
    While Badminton fans are talking about match-fixing, have a look at another sport, Cricket (and compare).

    Source: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/...12bff017cb5ed5

    Pakistani cricket match-fixers sent to jail

    Lucy Carne and Malcolm Conn
    From: The Advertiser
    November 03, 2011 10:47pm

    PAKISTAN'S corrupt cricketers will pay for betraying the integrity of the game and the faith of its fans by serving match-fixing's first jail sentences.

    In the most severe punishment ever handed out to fixing cheats, former Pakistan captain Salman Butt and fast bowlers Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir have been sentenced to significant jail terms by a London court for their part in the spot-fixing scandal.

    Butt, 27, was sentenced to 30 months in prison and fast bowler Asif, 28, was given a 12-month term behind bars for plotting to bowl deliberate no-balls in the Lord's Test against England last year.

    Fast bowler Amir, 19, was jailed for six months after he pleaded guilty in bowling two intentional no-balls.

    The corrupt UK-based sports agent who shadily choreographed the fixing scandal, Mazhar Majeed, 36, was jailed for two years and eight months.

    In dramatic scenes at London's Southwark Crown Court the players sat stunned in the dock as their sentences were delivered, unable to comprehend that their careers were over.

    "Your motive was greed, despite the legitimate rewards on offer in salaries and prize money," Judge Jeremy Cooke told Butt.

    "You have let down all supporters of the game."

    Earlier, the players' lawyers had begged and pleaded that they not be jailed.

    The evidence of the three week trial was based on undercover video from the News of the World, which broke the story on the deliberate match fraud.

    Judge Cooke told the court that the offences, regardless of pleas, "are so serious that only a sentence of imprisonment will suffice to mark the nature of the crimes and to deter any other cricketer, agent or anyone else who considers corrupt activity of this kind".

    Former Test captains Hansie Cronje, Mohammad Azharuddin and Salim Malik were all banned for life after inquires found them guilty of match-fixing, but none was ever charged with criminal offences.

    By comparison, the offences of the players sentenced last night appeared minor, but they put themselves at the mercy of a sport and society determined to end the scourge which has hung over it for well over a decade, and were shown none.

    Justice Cook was particularly severe on Butt.

    "It's clear you were the orchestrator of these matters," he told the former skipper. "You had to be to make sure these two bowlers were bowling at the time of the fix."

    "It is bad for the game of cricket, bad for the country and shows the character of the man involved."

    All four men were imprisoned at Wandsworth prison in southwest London and could be released on licence after six months.

    .

  14. #2598
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    Cobalt, I do not think LD has the courage like He Zhili. He will not pay a price like her. But Lin Dan has to risk an extremely bad reputation.

    Yes I think BWF need to shoulder heavy responsibility for what is happening.

  15. #2599
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    While Badminton fans are talking about match-fixing, have a look at another sport, Cricket (and compare).

    Source: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/...12bff017cb5ed5

    Pakistani cricket match-fixers sent to jail

    Lucy Carne and Malcolm Conn
    From: The Advertiser
    November 03, 2011 10:47pm

    PAKISTAN'S corrupt cricketers will pay for betraying the integrity of the game and the faith of its fans by serving match-fixing's first jail sentences.

    In the most severe punishment ever handed out to fixing cheats, former Pakistan captain Salman Butt and fast bowlers Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir have been sentenced to significant jail terms by a London court for their part in the spot-fixing scandal.

    Butt, 27, was sentenced to 30 months in prison and fast bowler Asif, 28, was given a 12-month term behind bars for plotting to bowl deliberate no-balls in the Lord's Test against England last year.

    Fast bowler Amir, 19, was jailed for six months after he pleaded guilty in bowling two intentional no-balls.

    The corrupt UK-based sports agent who shadily choreographed the fixing scandal, Mazhar Majeed, 36, was jailed for two years and eight months.

    In dramatic scenes at London's Southwark Crown Court the players sat stunned in the dock as their sentences were delivered, unable to comprehend that their careers were over.

    "Your motive was greed, despite the legitimate rewards on offer in salaries and prize money," Judge Jeremy Cooke told Butt.

    "You have let down all supporters of the game."

    Earlier, the players' lawyers had begged and pleaded that they not be jailed.

    The evidence of the three week trial was based on undercover video from the News of the World, which broke the story on the deliberate match fraud.

    Judge Cooke told the court that the offences, regardless of pleas, "are so serious that only a sentence of imprisonment will suffice to mark the nature of the crimes and to deter any other cricketer, agent or anyone else who considers corrupt activity of this kind".

    Former Test captains Hansie Cronje, Mohammad Azharuddin and Salim Malik were all banned for life after inquires found them guilty of match-fixing, but none was ever charged with criminal offences.

    By comparison, the offences of the players sentenced last night appeared minor, but they put themselves at the mercy of a sport and society determined to end the scourge which has hung over it for well over a decade, and were shown none.

    Justice Cook was particularly severe on Butt.

    "It's clear you were the orchestrator of these matters," he told the former skipper. "You had to be to make sure these two bowlers were bowling at the time of the fix."

    "It is bad for the game of cricket, bad for the country and shows the character of the man involved."

    All four men were imprisoned at Wandsworth prison in southwest London and could be released on licence after six months.

    .

    Good one. It is sad that players like LD and CBA has no shame and BWF is lame.

    We need players and the regulator to straighten up in badminton.

  16. #2600
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    Here's a thread for those LD fans out there. Hope you enjoy it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=juzzILJ89ME

    I
    t is an interview Lu Yu. Among the subjects discussed were:-

    1. LD's letter to his mother during the early years in the badminton academy telling his mother how he misses her.

    2. LD's attraction to XXF eventhough the latter is older by 2 years. Their support for each other.

    3. Their pet dog named Simba.

    4. The emotions that a hardworking athlete has to go through but spectators just want to watch the final win or loss outcome.
    Last edited by Pakito; 11-09-2011 at 04:44 AM.

  17. #2601
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    Latest Friendly tournament in china Exibition match Lee Chong Wei , Lin Dan , Taufik and Peter Gade

    In the final won by lin dan . Lee chong wei again lost the game.

    It seems that Lin dan has won it with a new weapon racket..

    Name:  lin dan.jpg
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