Lin Dan ( 林丹 )

[flite]

If you have to stoop to personal attacks to win the argument, it doesn't really reflect well on you.

Well I don't see how your claim of a personal attack valid. At which part of my post you found threatening? The last sentence?

Or could it be the case that one is ignorant and needed a different way to relate the answer.

[flite]

Oops double posting. sorry

[flite]

Oopps double posting. sorry.

[pjswift]

Lin Dan getting assist from his teammates to win big tournaments hence he should return the favour to his teammates ?Do you have any idea how many titles this bloke has given away particularly for Chen Jin just for the sake of China?His All England title, Singapore Open, Japan Open, Denmark Super Series, you name it.Officially he could have won more titles and trust me. Instead 50 titles, he could have double it to 100

Sorry, you got it backwards. During OG qualification period, LD s particularly generous in assisting or sharing titles with his teammates so that CHN gets the maximum 3 MS to qualify. When that happens, as in OG08 and will this year, LD will have one teammate to help him take care of some opponents on both halves. That s why one thread has been bustling about CL being on LCW s half and CJ on LD s side. Assuming all reach semi final, CL s job is to drain off maximum energy from LCW if he can t take him out. CJ s job is to give LD an easy training match to conserve his energy for the final. So when LD and LCW meet in the final, LD would have the advantage of better stamina over LCW. In the final, stamina is a determining factor in winning. In OG08 and this year, CJ was in danger of missing the cut if he did not get help. In OG08 qualification period, LD gave CJ the AE title, playing the most play-acting match that only the Brits could appreciate and applaud. That helped CJ qualify for OG08. If LD had won AE as expected, CJ might not have qualified. That s why LD gives the pennies to his teammates first so they can help him get the gold during OG. So during this OG qualification period, things got even more desperate than 2008, LD had no choice but to become King of Walkovers.

[yamsyams]

Well I don't see how your claim of a personal attack valid. At which part of my post you found threatening? The last sentence?

Or could it be the case that one is ignorant and needed a different way to relate the answer.

Threatening? I simply found your reply wholly unnecessary given that I had asked for a very basic clarification on your part. Your refusal to address my question directly and the choice to attack my comprehension abilities instead shows, to me, your lack of confidence in presenting a cogent argument.

pjswift brought up the issue of stamina. In that a less physically demanding semifinal would give Lin Dan greater stamina for the final. However, the final in Beijing was played 2 days after the semifinals were played, instead of 1 day after as typical of other tournaments such as the Super Series. I think any advantage in stamina would have been eroded almost completely given both players would have an extra day's rest, while they would have been used to playing the final the next day. If it weren't the case, I don't think you can explain Lee Chong Wei's ability to win tournaments consistently, playing 5 days in a row. Moreover, I think most would agree that LCW was so outmatched in the final that it is unlikely to be a stamina issue. He was simply overwhelmed by LD playing better than he had ever played before.

And this is why I asked whether your argument stopped at whether LD had an advantage, or if you also argued that this advantage affected his following matches. Because while I agree that LD would have been the fresher player had they had to play immediately after their respective semifinals ended, this advantage fades over time.

[twobeer]

Sorry, you got it backwards. During OG qualification period, LD s particularly generous in assisting or sharing titles with his teammates so that CHN gets the maximum 3 MS to qualify. When that happens, as in OG08 and will this year, LD will have one teammate to help him take care of some opponents on both halves. That s why one thread has been bustling about CL being on LCW s half and CJ on LD s side. Assuming all reach semi final, CL s job is to drain off maximum energy from LCW if he can t take him out. CJ s job is to give LD an easy training match to conserve his energy for the final. So when LD and LCW meet in the final, LD would have the advantage of better stamina over LCW. In the final, stamina is a determining factor in winning. In OG08 and this year, CJ was in danger of missing the cut if he did not get help. In OG08 qualification period, LD gave CJ the AE title, playing the most play-acting match that only the Brits could appreciate and applaud. That helped CJ qualify for OG08. If LD had won AE as expected, CJ might not have qualified. That s why LD gives the pennies to his teammates first so they can help him get the gold during OG. So during this OG qualification period, things got even more desperate than 2008, LD had no choice but to become King of Walkovers.

You choose to see the bad side of "fighting" the not-so-fair qualification rules for OG..

If you look on it from an individual fairness and sport-spirit angle, it then really makes no sense why one of the best players in the world should be denied entry in OG based on weather he is ranked 4 or 5..

I think most players would agree that from an individual standpoint it would be unfair that CJ would not be allowed to play OG, but players like Rasheed Mohamed Ajfan from the Maldives should be!!

So an alternative view is simply that anything LD does to help CJ qualify is really just fighting against some unfair qualification rules, and is indeed a moral thing to do.

But OG is different than SS etc. as it really IS a competiton for medals between countries and federations mre than between individuals, and this is the main reason that qualification and draw-procedures are different (contry/federation perspective comes into play) and the rationale that only a limited amount of players from each federation is allowed, regardless of how good they are used.

With this in mind OG is really about getting medals for China (it should be different than normal SS, I feel china is treating SS similarily as "team"-type events, which I don't like, but that is another discussion).

So following this line of argument that OG really is a "country" vs. "country" event, I think most chineese people watching OG would be gutted if one of their players with very slim chances of winning the Gold, would take actions that could be considered "helping" aother country to get the gold in Badminton.

IF CJ and LD met in the Semis, I am pretty sure NO ONE needs to tell CJ that for China to grab the gold, LD will have a better chance in the final than CJ, so what do you really think CJ should do for his country at that point?? Rememer CJ has something like 2-9 against LCW and LD has something like 20-9..

Do you think the "nationality" aspect etc. are bad in OG and that nationality should be "irellevant" to the games, just individual athletes with no focus on what country they are from?

Do you think players and coaches should not care about their countrys medal chances in OG?

[flite]

Threatening? I simply found your reply wholly unnecessary given that I had asked for a very basic clarification on your part. Your refusal to address my question directly and the choice to attack my comprehension abilities instead shows, to me, your lack of confidence in presenting a cogent argument.

pjswift brought up the issue of stamina. In that a less physically demanding semifinal would give Lin Dan greater stamina for the final. However, the final in Beijing was played 2 days after the semifinals were played, instead of 1 day after as typical of other tournaments such as the Super Series. I think any advantage in stamina would have been eroded almost completely given both players would have an extra day's rest, while they would have been used to playing the final the next day. If it weren't the case, I don't think you can explain Lee Chong Wei's ability to win tournaments consistently, playing 5 days in a row. Moreover, I think most would agree that LCW was so outmatched in the final that it is unlikely to be a stamina issue. He was simply overwhelmed by LD playing better than he had ever played before.

And this is why I asked whether your argument stopped at whether LD had an advantage, or if you also argued that this advantage affected his following matches. Because while I agree that LD would have been the fresher player had they had to play immediately after their respective semifinals ended, this advantage fades over time.

This is precisely why I address your answer in that manner.

For your information, the stamina issue (how fresh a player is), be it playing 5 or 10 days in a row, has been touched on and discussed before you jump in from nowhere and ask the same questions all over again! Someone brought up something similar with relation to your last paragraph and I did state my part of argument too.

Similarly, I also did stated many times that what I had to say about LD in regards to my opinion has all been written in my previous postings begin from page 178. Do you needed to be spoon-fed at exactly which post# those were discussed at?

Now was it you who did not read in the first place or instead I did not present my point of argument? Whether you agree with me or my points wasn't good enough for is another matter altogether. Get your facts right!

[extremenanopowe]

It is the minds behind the system that created so much hatred.

That is why the world is still being ruled by some evil regimes.

Some people just keep a blind eye and cherish or encourage them. Sad case.

Most are still young at age to realise it. Don't waste your time to argue with them.

[pjswift]

Threatening? I simply found your reply wholly unnecessary given that I had asked for a very basic clarification on your part. Your refusal to address my question directly and the choice to attack my comprehension abilities instead shows, to me, your lack of confidence in presenting a cogent argument.pjswift brought up the issue of stamina. In that a less physically demanding semifinal would give Lin Dan greater stamina for the final. However, the final in Beijing was played 2 days after the semifinals were played, instead of 1 day after as typical of other tournaments such as the Super Series. I think any advantage in stamina would have been eroded almost completely given both players would have an extra day's rest, while they would have been used to playing the final the next day. If it weren't the case, I don't think you can explain Lee Chong Wei's ability to win tournaments consistently, playing 5 days in a row. Moreover, I think most would agree that LCW was so outmatched in the final that it is unlikely to be a stamina issue. He was simply overwhelmed by LD playing better than he had ever played before.And this is why I asked whether your argument stopped at whether LD had an advantage, or if you also argued that this advantage affected his following matches. Because while I agree that LD would have been the fresher player had they had to play immediately after their respective semifinals ended, this advantage fades over time.

LCW had a tough match with LHI. Actually the one who lost out the most was LHI. If LD and CJ had played a real match like LCW and LHI, LHI would have a bronze chance. It s hard to tell whether another day s rest negates the stamina factor. However, LD probably got even more energised by the 7,000 strong CHN crowd. Given how well prepared LD was, plus the major crowd factor, LCW wouldn t stand a chance unless his preparations was first class. I would say, in OG08, the crowd was a determining factor. Players have often cited crowd support in helping energise them to play ' incredible' ! Maybe in OG12, LD should play a real match. But I doubt CHN would have the guts. Too much money is at stake. There s no need to take this discussion like it s in the court of law. There is no right or wrong opinion. I can give an opinion, back it up with data from which deductions can be made but if you are a die hard LD fan, you will brush it off. Only neutral fans can be convinced.

[twobeer]

LCW had a tough match with LHI. Actually the one who lost out the most was LHI. If LD and CJ had played a real match like LCW and LHI, LHI would have a bronze chance. It s hard to tell whether another day s rest negates the stamina factor.

So what you are saying is that CJ was the one player benefitted from an easy win for LD.. CJ would have been stupid to try to go for it and ruin his chances of bronze, and LD therefore got it handed by CJ... Why do people then without rationale blame LD??

[ctjcad]

.. In OG08 qualification period, LD gave CJ the AE title, playing the most play-acting match that only the Brits could appreciate and applaud. That helped CJ qualify for OG08. If LD had won AE as expected, CJ might not have qualified.

..do you know who CJ beat in the SF Rd. of that 2008 AE in order to get himself into the Final Rd?
And no, even if he had won that 2008 AE, i believe he would still have to win another tourney in order to maintain the no. 4 spot. I believe he lost in the 1st Rd. of the subsequent tourneys and didn't "officially" secure his no. 4 ranking until he won the Badminton Asia Championships title (if i recall the last tourney available to secure OG qualification pts).

In all, sure, eventhough LD , CL & CJ may seem to benefit from each other with LD getting most of the benefit, CL & CJ also have to create & capitalize their own opportunities. Ain't no way CL & CJ can be where they are if they themselves don't and can't create their own success. In essence, it's partly the system and the players themselves.

[limsy]

not sure about the point here
are u guys talking about the greatest miracle in badminton when the conceded most walkover player in universe become world number one?
oh,please
dont jealous about lin dan achievement,only he can do this stunt

[twobeer]

not sure about the point here
are u guys talking about the greatest miracle in badminton when the conceded most walkover player in universe become world number one?
oh,please
dont jealous about lin dan achievement,only he can do this stunt

If you can win the world championships 15 times, get OG gold and become WR #1 by just doing walkovers.. yes then it is a miracle :-)..

[laonong]

not sure about the point here
are u guys talking about the greatest miracle in badminton when the conceded most walkover player in universe become world number one?
oh,please
dont jealous about lin dan achievement,only he can do this stunt

Most generous player and most humble player and best player.

[laonong]

It is the minds behind the system that created so much hatred.

That is why the world is still being ruled by some evil regimes.

Some people just keep a blind eye and cherish or encourage them. Sad case.

Most are still young at age to realise it. Don't waste your time to argue with them.

Who are you talking to? who is them? who is some people? which evil regimens

[limsy]

If you can win the world championships 15 times, get OG gold and become WR #1 by just doing walkovers.. yes then it is a miracle :-)..

yeah
lin dan won WC from 1997 till 2012
i know that.

[laonong]

yeah
lin dan won WC from 1997 till 2012
i know that.

Lin dan did not Won WC 1997 -2005. hope he can win 2013-2015