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  1. #3095
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    Quote Originally Posted by laonong View Post
    Lin dan did not Won WC 1997 -2005. hope he can win 2013-2015
    dont bluff
    everyone in china know he won 15 or 16 world championship

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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    dont bluff
    everyone in china know he won 15 or 16 world championship
    wow! hope he can win the 16th, 17th, 18th and others soon.

  3. #3097
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    Quote Originally Posted by flite View Post
    This is precisely why I address your answer in that manner.

    For your information, the stamina issue (how fresh a player is), be it playing 5 or 10 days in a row, has been touched on and discussed before you jump in from nowhere and ask the same questions all over again! Someone brought up something similar with relation to your last paragraph and I did state my part of argument too.

    Clearly you don't see the bigger picture I'm driving at, but it's alright, let me spell it out for you. I was specifically asking for the extent of your argument because if your argument indeed stopped at whether or not LD received assistance, but did not extend to whether or not this assistance had an effect on his subsequent matches, why then is your argument even relevant at all?

    Similarly, I also did stated many times that what I had to say about LD in regards to my opinion has all been written in my previous postings begin from page 178. Do you needed to be spoon-fed at exactly which post# those were discussed at?

    Same questions? Oh Brilliant One, please point to me where you have specifically listed the advantages that the supposed assistance brought, beyond simply classifying them as physical and/or mental (as I said in my original post). pjswift has brought up the point of stamina. I don't see you bringing up any.

    Now was it you who did not read in the first place or instead I did not present my point of argument? Whether you agree with me or my points wasn't good enough for is another matter altogether. Get your facts right!
    As above. Perhaps you're the one who needs to get your facts straight.

  4. #3098
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    dont bluff
    everyone in china know he won 15 or 16 world championship
    1. Gold 2011 London Men's Singles
    2. Gold 2009 Hyderabad Men's singles
    3. Gold 2007 Kuala Lumpur Men's singles
    4. Gold 2006 Madrid Men's singles
    5. Gold 2006 Yiyang Men's singles
    6. Gold 2005 Yiyang Men's singles
    7. Gold 2012 Wuhan Team
    8. Gold 2010 Kuala Lumpur Team
    9. Gold 2008 Jakarta Team
    10. Gold 2006 Tokyo Team
    11. Gold 2004 Jakarta Team
    12. Gold 2011 Qingdao Team
    13. Gold 2009 Guangzhou Team
    14. Gold 2007 Glasgow Team
    15. Gold 2005 Beijing Team

  5. #3099
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    1. Gold 2011 London Men's Singles
    2. Gold 2009 Hyderabad Men's singles
    3. Gold 2007 Kuala Lumpur Men's singles
    4. Gold 2006 Madrid Men's singles
    5. Gold 2006 Yiyang Men's singles
    6. Gold 2005 Yiyang Men's singles
    7. Gold 2012 Wuhan Team
    8. Gold 2010 Kuala Lumpur Team
    9. Gold 2008 Jakarta Team
    10. Gold 2006 Tokyo Team
    11. Gold 2004 Jakarta Team
    12. Gold 2011 Qingdao Team
    13. Gold 2009 Guangzhou Team
    14. Gold 2007 Glasgow Team
    15. Gold 2005 Beijing Team
    but aren't the Yiyang's World Cup events just an invitational events? can it be count too? how is the format of the tournament btw? thanks.

    sorry for bit off topic. how to stop the forum mailer send notifications to our e-mail's inbox? i have unchecked the option, and yes, i don't receive any notifications of any replies to any threads. but still, i'll get notifications for replies to this Lin Dan's thread. some help please? thank you.

  6. #3100
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    but aren't the Yiyang's World Cup events just an invitational events? can it be count too? how is the format of the tournament btw? thanks.

    sorry for bit off topic. how to stop the forum mailer send notifications to our e-mail's inbox? i have unchecked the option, and yes, i don't receive any notifications of any replies to any threads. but still, i'll get notifications for replies to this Lin Dan's thread. some help please? thank you.
    Yes the world cup that came back 2005 and 2006, was inivtational.. I beleive the invitiations however was to the major federations that was invited to enter their best players if i remeber correctly. It was also one of the first tournaments to try out the 21 scoring.

    BTW,I think LD also has a gold in Junior World Championship team event 2000.

  7. #3101
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    BTW,I think LD also has a gold in Junior World Championship team event 2000.
    Nope he lost in the Semi-Final to Bao Chunlai.

  8. #3102
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    not sure about the point here
    are u guys talking about the greatest miracle in badminton when the conceded most walkover player in universe become world number one?
    oh,please
    dont jealous about lin dan achievement,only he can do this stunt
    No he cannot. Only LYB can pull it off with his willing silent compliance. Poor LD, what could he do? It was on his shoulders to create a false and completely unfair #4 ranking for his compatriot who was by himself unworthy of the #4 ranking because he could not get there by himself. It's not his fault. It's PG's fault, because PG had no business being there at #4 in the first place. How dare PG!!

    Am also disappointed with Justin's recent statements after reading so many of his highly moral discourses in other posts and threads; and now he justifies nationalist maneuvers that discredit other players, with a simplistic "end-justifies-the-means" angle and that tired cliche "it's all the fault of the 'unfair' rules laid down by OG committee and BWF..." And Justin, before you conveniently quote other people, please rememebr that both PG and Gopi, both people with a high sense of personal integrity, made their statements in the context of praising the CBA work ethic and focus, but a few million people would love to selective use these guys to justify cheating by CBA. You should have known better than fall for that device.

    If CJ cannot make it on his own, he doesn't deserve to be in the top 4 - period! That is called fair competition. Anything else is cheating! When will you people ever get it????? Sorry, my question should be: "Do you people ever want to get it???"

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    No he cannot. Only LYB can pull it off with his willing silent compliance. Poor LD, what could he do? It was on his shoulders to create a false and completely unfair #4 ranking for his compatriot who was by himself unworthy of the #4 ranking because he could not get there by himself. It's not his fault. It's PG's fault, because PG had no business being there at #4 in the first place. How dare PG!!

    Am also disappointed with Justin's recent statements after reading so many of his highly moral discourses in other posts and threads; and now he justifies nationalist maneuvers that discredit other players, with a simplistic "end-justifies-the-means" angle and that tired cliche "it's all the fault of the 'unfair' rules laid down by OG committee and BWF..." And Justin, before you conveniently quote other people, please rememebr that both PG and Gopi, both people with a high sense of personal integrity, made their statements in the context of praising the CBA work ethic and focus, but a few million people would love to selective use these guys to justify cheating by CBA. You should have known better than fall for that device.

    If CJ cannot make it on his own, he doesn't deserve to be in the top 4 - period! That is called fair competition. Anything else is cheating! When will you people ever get it????? Sorry, my question should be: "Do you people ever want to get it???"
    Are you saying you think PG is actually stronger player than CJ and thus is more deserving of being ranked higher?? I have a bit of a hard time understanding your reasoning here. I really admide and root for PG, but frankly ranking-point wise it is an advantage to be european, due to less competetition in europe and thus more easily obtained rating points.

    BTW i think the stats between CJH and PG is 8-3 to CJ favor...

    I am no big fan of CJs style of play.. I find him a bit to "non-creative", PG is more entertaining. but there is no denial he is the stronger badmintonplayer of the two imop.
    Last edited by twobeer; 06-24-2012 at 03:53 PM.

  10. #3104
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    dont bluff
    everyone in china know he won 15 or 16 world championship
    if include Thomas cup, sudiman cup, maybe around 15.
    don't think everyone in China know that.
    I guess more than 50% people in China does not know who is LD, LCW, TH, PG etc.

  11. #3105
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamsyams View Post
    As above. Perhaps you're the one who needs to get your facts straight.
    Clearly it was you who didn't see the bigger picture as to what extent or benefit LD had and toward his subsequent matches. It was all there.

    Same thing apply to the physical and mental issue. What do you think that if indeed LD had an easy match and on the other hand his supposed opponent had a tough one? What advantage or benefit do you think the physical and mental issue had?

    Or shall I say you refused to see it? Since you highlighted them and need further elaboration like a lawyer wannabe, here you go:

    Assumed that LD vs CJ match was fixed

    1.) Mentally more relaxed - Prior knowing that he would have an easy match in the SF, LD does not need to worry about the SF match eg. what strategy to apply, game-plan etc.. Mentally he is free of pressure for the day. One can only operate, play and think properly if he is not under constant pressure.

    2.) Mentally better prepared - LD already knew that he already booked a ticket to the Final so his mind and vision can totally focus on the coming matches and plan ahead. He can strategize his game and do some analytical preparation whereas all his opponent could do is to focus on the game on hand. Mentality wise, LD is one step ahead.

    3.) Physically well prepared - He can take the match against CJ as an extra training day. A training just to get his body rate worked out to the desired level so he would be at optimum condition. This is essential as to make sure that he wasn't overworked nor over rested prior to the Final. On the other hand, LCW and LHY were fighting gongs and drums maybe even to the point of exhaustion.

    4.) Physically well preserved - Most of the top athletes carry some sort of strain/injury with them at certain point of time. These strains or injuries could resurfaced if one were pushed to the limit. LD was spared in regard to this since he wasn't pushed by CJ. The same couldn't be applied to LCW who had a gruelling three setter. Therefore LD came to the Final in a better physical condition compared to LCW who might still not yet fully recovered. In that case, LD can play the way, the speed, the game he wanted to play.

    Given the points above do you think that he LD indeed has certain advantages or benefits coming to the final matches? Or you can still argue and stick to it that LD being the "best player" does not need that.... which is beside the point.
    Last edited by flite; 06-24-2012 at 05:39 PM.

  12. #3106
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Are you saying you think PG is actually stronger player than CJ and thus is more deserving of being ranked higher?? I have a bit of a hard time understanding your reasoning here. I really admide and root for PG, but frankly ranking-point wise it is an advantage to be european, due to less competetition in europe and thus more easily obtained rating points.

    BTW i think the stats between CJH and PG is 8-3 to CJ favor...

    I am no big fan of CJs style of play.. I find him a bit to "non-creative", PG is more entertaining. but there is no denial he is the stronger badmintonplayer of the two imop.
    OK, we can choose to be obtuse, TB, which I admit you do very well when you choose to!

    CJ wouldn't have got a few thousand of the points he had garnered, if not for the magnanimity of his cohorts. You're pretty good at looking up stats when it suits you, why don't you do the same this time around for the OG qualifying period, for some of the SS tourneys played? How about starting with the SS tourney that just played out, only circa 2011? Remember it was just about a thousand points that got him to #4 just in the nick of time. And thereby hangs the tale...

    Point-wise ranking for an European player has nothing to do with it. No one assisted PG in any event he played. H2H stats don't have anything to do with the fact of ranking. "Easy" points in Europe (debatable) is no justification for a CBA manipulation.

    CJ may in your opinion, be the stronger player of the two, but what exactly does that have to do with his ranking? Is his bad back to be blamed on PG? Is his run of bad results with other players to be blamed on PG? What exactly is your point? Is his misfortune, his lack of physical conditioning, his insufficient points something to be covered up with statements like "China deserves to have at least 4-5 players in the OG!"

    Give me a break, the OG wasn't made to parade the best of the best. That's what world championships are for. The OG is a chance for all countries, yes even the "underprivileged" and "third world" (how I hate those words coined by the powerful to further underline the chasm between the haves and have-nots) to mix it with the "developed" and "powerful" on equal terms. If you don't like it, you have a choice: get lost, don't participate!

  13. #3107
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    Quote Originally Posted by flite View Post
    Clearly it was you who didn't see the bigger picture as to what extent or benefit LD had and toward his subsequent matches. It was all there.
    Speaking about the OG2008 Final between LD and LCW, in a nutshell, you cannot sound a clap with only one palm waving into thin air.

    If you have read or seen the interviews LCW had about that fateful match, these are some of the significant factors that led LCW to believe that the match was not really his to take:

    1. LCW was not mentally prepared. He mentioned that he had close to or less than 5 hours of sleep the night prior. He was just too anxious to "get things over with".

    2. At the time LCW was facing a lot of mental pressure from BAM and indirect expectations from his MAS fans. LD was also facing the same thing from the other side. Truth is, if LD had been mentally weak during the time, LCW would have had some chance of taking the match as no matter how well rested LD was the match prior, mental pressure can still crack him up. Psychology is not as simple as a lot of you have been pointing out here.

    3. LCW had admitted that during that match LD was playing a better game and had a better game plan than he did. This itself has a lot of factors such that I would not point directly at any one factor and elaborate on it, so 'nuff said.

  14. #3108
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    OK, we can choose to be obtuse, TB, which I admit you do very well when you choose to!
    OK, I can give you that,. I even spelled worse than usual in that post..

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Point-wise ranking for an European player has nothing to do with it. No one assisted PG in any event he played.
    How can you know (or prove) that all players he has beaten did not intend to assist him?? Especially some of the Japanese players have given him suspiciously easy wins.. Maybe it's the sponsor behind it?? I am just playing devils advocate here.. but the discussion based on pure assumptions on the "effort" of players is fruitless. Besides there is a fact that players like Taufik openly suggesting that he and LCW would assist PG to stop CJs ranking advancement. Remember http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...na-says-Taufik ...

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    CJ may in your opinion, be the stronger player of the two, but what exactly does that have to do with his ranking? don
    Can't we at least agree that the general idea behind the world ranking is to rank the player based on their badminton playing strength, even if the system has its flaws..

    8-3 between two player is also a pretty strong indication which one is the strongest.. I think the last time CJ lost to PG was in 2008.

    Don't you think the ranking has anything to do with the players strength? Come on now.. Don't be obtuse yourself .-)

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Is his bad back to be blamed on PG? Is his run of bad results with other players to be blamed on PG?
    No, and No.. I fail to see how you could think that i somehow "blame" PG for CJ being ranked to low.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    What exactly is your point?
    My point is that I think it is only fair that CJ is ranked before PG, and it is definitely not fair that one of the top 5 players in the world would be denied entry in OG based on only the fact that the country already has two players ranked higher. So I fail to be very upset that his team mates don't made their upmost to stop him from qualifying to OG, as you seem to think they should.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Is his misfortune, his lack of physical conditioning, his insufficient points something to be covered up with statements like "China deserves to have at least 4-5 players in the OG!"
    You are just coming up with stamens that no one is saying.. I personally think it makes sense that a country with 3 top-10 players should have the possibility if they play well to get gold, silver and bronze medals..And this would of course be the same if JAP, MAS, DK or any other country had 3 possible medal candidates. I have a hard time figuring out why you would deny China this opportunity, if you are not in some way biased against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Give me a break, the OG wasn't made to parade the best of the best. That's what world championships are for. The OG is a chance for all countries, yes even the "underprivileged" and "third world" (how I hate those words coined by the powerful to further underline the chasm between the haves and have-nots) to mix it with the "developed" and "powerful" on equal terms. If you don't like it, you have a choice: get lost, don't participate!
    Yes, I also think OG should be not only for the best! But allowing lesser countries to compete, isn't the same as denying the strong countries their chances of medal sweeps imop. I fail to see how allowing China to enter 3 top contender would deny Henri Hurskainen of Sweden his chance of glory..

    Do you think it would be more fair with a max 2 players per country? or maybe just limit it to one player per country, then making it impossible for any single country to get both gold silver and bronze in our sport?

  15. #3109
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    1. Gold 2011 London Men's Singles
    2. Gold 2009 Hyderabad Men's singles
    3. Gold 2007 Kuala Lumpur Men's singles
    4. Gold 2006 Madrid Men's singles
    5. Gold 2006 Yiyang Men's singles
    6. Gold 2005 Yiyang Men's singles
    7. Gold 2012 Wuhan Team
    8. Gold 2010 Kuala Lumpur Team
    9. Gold 2008 Jakarta Team
    10. Gold 2006 Tokyo Team
    11. Gold 2004 Jakarta Team
    12. Gold 2011 Qingdao Team
    13. Gold 2009 Guangzhou Team
    14. Gold 2007 Glasgow Team
    15. Gold 2005 Beijing Team
    they say world championship lar
    not this kind of team team thingy

  16. #3110
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    they say world championship lar
    not this kind of team team thingy
    but i think TC,UC and SC are team world championship, aren't they?

  17. #3111
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    No he cannot. Only LYB can pull it off with his willing silent compliance. Poor LD, what could he do? It was on his shoulders to create a false and completely unfair #4 ranking for his compatriot who was by himself unworthy of the #4 ranking because he could not get there by himself. It's not his fault. It's PG's fault, because PG had no business being there at #4 in the first place. How dare PG!!

    Am also disappointed with Justin's recent statements after reading so many of his highly moral discourses in other posts and threads; and now he justifies nationalist maneuvers that discredit other players, with a simplistic "end-justifies-the-means" angle and that tired cliche "it's all the fault of the 'unfair' rules laid down by OG committee and BWF..." And Justin, before you conveniently quote other people, please rememebr that both PG and Gopi, both people with a high sense of personal integrity, made their statements in the context of praising the CBA work ethic and focus, but a few million people would love to selective use these guys to justify cheating by CBA. You should have known better than fall for that device.

    If CJ cannot make it on his own, he doesn't deserve to be in the top 4 - period! That is called fair competition. Anything else is cheating! When will you people ever get it????? Sorry, my question should be: "Do you people ever want to get it???"
    CJ doesn't deserve to be no.4 and therefore shouldn't be in the Olympics? If he were a non-CHN player, what then, but it's his misfortune to be from CHN?

    By saying CJ deserves to be in, I discredit other players, how did that conclusion come about??? End justifies the means? Nope,not always, the means must be acceptable and not harmful,please don't assume that it's my stand.

    The IOC/BWF rule unfair to CHN - it is unfair, but CHN isn't complaining but trying their level best to get one more player in as allowed by the rules without doing anything illegal. If what CHN did is cheating,then BWF,the world governing body to which CBA and all the BAs are subordinate, is the more guilty party for conniving,condoning and allowing it, therefore guilty of complicity at least. Don't you think we ought to go after BWF first or instead? Why just stop at whining and whimpering or ranting and raving at them in this forum?

    All those who believe BWF and CBA and one or two other BAs who did the same are guilty of cheating should bring them to justice. Let's clean up the act, restore the great game of badminton to its former glory and pristine purity - I am all for it. Accusing somebody/organization of cheating is a serious charge, for cheating is a punishable offence, a crime but if you people have proof that CBA and other BAs have violated BWF's rules, take legal action against them, including BWF for sanctioning it.

    If you feel powerless,may I suggest you start a petition,collect funds and engage a legal representative to take up the case? In this forum, I believe there are quite a few "crouching tigers and hidden dragons", very capable people who can take the lead if they are willing.

    You know I've the highest regard for PG as I've expressed in your tribute to PG thread. And I admire P Gopichand's forthrightness and courage. Both of them are men of high integrity and whether I've misquoted them, if I did I sincerely apologise, let their own words speak for themselves (they can be found somewhere in this forum) in the context of manipulating ranking points.

    Btw, I've said this several times,the Olympics is all about participation,universality,the world as one big family, it's not all about winning, even though many aspirants dream of participating and winning a medal for their country and will give life or limb for it. CHN and the other countries fully understand this and supported it. In table-tennis where CHN is even more dominant, the limit is strictly two participants,no exception made. If that's also the case for badminton, then all "this" becomes a moot point,totally irrelevant,meaningless. But since BWF/IOC made that concession - three,i.e. one more if certain conditions are met - then CHN or any other country for that matter, will surely want to try their best to fulfil the quota without violating the rules, simple as that.

    Lastly,if I'm not wrong, this time round,this OG qualifying period,for quite a long while,LD or CL could do little to "help" CJ who floundered too many times. Ironically,in the end, he more or less did it by himself, remember the two tournaments he won,the Swiss Open'12 and Aussie Open'12. Then, in the India Open'12, when he realised he had qualified when PG unexpectedly lost in the QF to Shon WH, he immediately conceded a walkover to P Kashyap who thereby also qualified - you can say, PG indirectly helped him although he together with Lee CW and Taufik made a pact to stop CJ.

    It goes to show if CJ isn't good enough he won't make it, the hardest working player with 22 tournaments and risking injury, though in the first place he should already be qualified without having to do so much and be severely criticized for it - all because CHN hope for just one more ,only one more, participant in the OG. Oh well,CJ,that's your fate, I get it now.

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