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  1. #3214
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1lau View Post
    Are we really going to attack the Olympics? Did you forget it takes one year of good results to even qualify for a chance to participate in the Olympic tournament itself. What you think of as luck with regards to Ji Xinpeng, I can reinterpret that to being how hard it is to actually win an Olympics, because the field of competitors is trying as hard as they can to win. Don't forget he beat young Taufik, young Peter Gade, and Hedrawan who went on to win the WC the next year. You might not consider him great, but he is definitely is not a "sh!t player" and to call him such is unnecessarily disrespectful.

    Now to bring the conversation back to Lin Dan, yes the Olympic isn't the only factor that makes him a contender for the "best ever", but it sure does help his case and anyone in the future you put up against Lin Dan, better have at least one Olympic Gold in his badminton resume if we're going to be talking about "best ever". And in Lin Dan's case, it was the way he won and who he won against!
    No,no,Heavens forbid, nobody is attacking the Olympics,we are just valuing it for what it is and not overdoing it, see it in the right perspective. Of course,everybody wants to win a medal for their country but it is not the be-all and end-all of a sportsperson's career.

    I feel that we shouldn't based on the Olympics alone to gauge a player's greatness,it's one of the criteria no doubt but not necessarily the most important one because it's only held once in 4 years and it's not the strongest event to boot. The funny but comprehensible thing is how sometimes the lesser players rise to the occasion and play above themselves while the stronger players falter who then have to wait 4 years later and older to prove themselves provided they get another go at it. As for the element of luck,to be honest, I cannot totally rule it out either,considering the wide disparity in strength of the top and bottom players and how the draw turns out plus one or two other factors,such as country participants limitation.

    During the Olympics,I often witness the ecstasies and agonies of the winners and losers because it is all for their country for which they take it as their mission to accomplish, almost a do-or-die kind of thing, a life-changing experience for the medal contenders and medallists. Yet years later what happened to most of the winners? Quite a number faded into obscurity, not a few even struggled to make ends meet, and a handful were reported resorting to selling their medals;on the other hand,there were happy cases where the medallists were handsomely rewarded in some countries. Everything seems magnified out of proportion even as the Olympics spirit keeps emphasizing about participation,universal inclusiveness,the coming together as one big family, that it's not all about winning.

    You're right, Ji Xinpeng isn't a "sh*t player",just not a great player, that's all. As for Lin Dan who has won everything and scaled all the heights in badminton, winning another major title is like more of the same,a bonus, esp winning OG gold again is a great feeling doing it for his country - but,in my view,not winning it does in no way detract from his greatness. And you're very right to say,for Lin Dan it's not just that he won but how he won that impressed us the most.

  2. #3215
    Regular Member V1lau's Avatar
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    Justin L

    I don't know who is making the argument that the Olympics is lone or most important factor that determines greatness, but I agree that we have to look at the player's body of work to make a case for greatness. As in the case for LCW, my opinion is that he is a great player. Even if he doesn't win the Olympics, his record in SS events is enough for me to easily hold that opinion of him.

    If it not the most important tournament, where do you put the Olympics in the hierarchy of tournaments? Isn't the scarcity of chances to obtain the Olympic title what necessary makes it so coveted, important, and distinguish it from every other tournament? Doesn't every tournament have the same element of luck and the chance for lesser opponent to rise to the occasion? I'm I wrong to say, it is up to the truly great player to rise above all of that or is luck the main factor that decides who wins an Olympic Gold or any tournament for that matter?

  3. #3216
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    The olympics is the competition all badm players will want to win in their career and it may be the most important title to them..however, you can't use it as the only competition to judge a player whether he is the greatest or not..I would say using the 4 most impt competitions something like the tennis grand slams..they will be the olympics, asian games (individual event), world championship and the all england.
    In this case, players will have to show that they can live up to expectations and handle the pressure and perform well in these events rather than just a one time event. From these major tournaments we will then be able to judge a player to see if he is the greatest or not of all time...anyone agrees?

    from results Lindan has 1OG, 1AG, 4 WC and 5AE While LCW has 0, 0 , 0, 2

  4. #3217
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1lau View Post
    Justin L

    I don't know who is making the argument that the Olympics is lone or most important factor that determines greatness, but I agree that we have to look at the player's body of work to make a case for greatness. As in the case for LCW, my opinion is that he is a great player. Even if he doesn't win the Olympics, his record in SS events is enough for me to easily hold that opinion of him.

    If it not the most important tournament, where do you put the Olympics in the hierarchy of tournaments? Isn't the scarcity of chances to obtain the Olympic title what necessary makes it so coveted, important, and distinguish it from every other tournament? Doesn't every tournament have the same element of luck and the chance for lesser opponent to rise to the occasion? I'm I wrong to say, it is up to the truly great player to rise above all of that or is luck the main factor that decides who wins an Olympic Gold or any tournament for that matter?
    Yes,I'm fully in agreement with you about Lee CW being a great player based on his SS records alone,never mind not winning the Olympics for reasons already covered above in this thread. In fact, I'd say Lin Dan has largely Lee CW,and a few others to a lesser extent,eg Taufik Hidayat,Peter Gade, to thank for his greatness as a truly great player requires a great archrival(s) to bring out the very best in him.

    In the hierarchy of tournaments,the Olympics is one of the majors, so not winning this one (every 4 years) but other majors,eg SS/SSP and WC, is good enough to qualify for greatness,in my opinion.

    Precisely,it's the scarcity/rarity of the Olympic title that makes it coveted,special but not the strength of the event based on its composition of players quality and other factors, and surely we don't have to wait every 4 years to know who's the best. For the same reason,luck is found in every tournament but to varying degrees, say for the SS Final you don't get any weak opponent. And a 1-in-4-yr event makes it even more so,what if you're slightly injured,beset with personal problem,the age factor (you're 4 yrs older),for political reason a boycott is in place,not to mention unforeseen circumstances such as natural calamity - all of which a truly great player has little or no control over despite his ability and tip-top condition;it's not like he can try again next year, and how many 4 years does he have?

    Obviously,luck is never the main factor - you don't win a major title on luck - but the degree of uncertainty for a 1-in-4-yr event is considerably higher than a yearly one as already discussed. Enough said,thank you.

  5. #3218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkai View Post
    The olympics is the competition all badm players will want to win in their career and it may be the most important title to them..however, you can't use it as the only competition to judge a player whether he is the greatest or not..I would say using the 4 most impt competitions something like the tennis grand slams..they will be the olympics, asian games (individual event), world championship and the all england.
    In this case, players will have to show that they can live up to expectations and handle the pressure and perform well in these events rather than just a one time event. From these major tournaments we will then be able to judge a player to see if he is the greatest or not of all time...anyone agrees?

    from results Lindan has 1OG, 1AG, 4 WC and 5AE While LCW has 0, 0 , 0, 2
    For I think Lee Chong Wei has done enough to prove he is more than just a formidable Malaysian player, he is better than Wong Choon Hann, Hafiz and Roslin Hashim.

    Reaching the All England Finals three times in a row is not small matter to be cast aside while Lin Dan ? He has been messing around in the All England yet he reached the finals SIX times in a row because he purposely got defeated by Bao Chunlai and then he reached the finals again twice in a row. Who knows Lin Dan is going to reach the final again in 2013 .

    To me, All England is the best indicator of how great the player actually is. I am not really convinced by Rudy Hartono's because he won them because Chinese players never competed in All England and he had Liem Swie King and some Indonesian players to let him break Erland Kops' record. Even Erland Kops was quite unhappy once and said Rudy Hartono had "help" to break his record.

    Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei's run in All England are simply amazing followed by Morten Frost and Liem Swie King.

  6. #3219
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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    For I think Lee Chong Wei has done enough to%2pprove he is more than just a formidable Malaysian player, he is better than Wong Choon Hann, Hafiz and Roslin Hashim.

    Reaching the All England Finals three times in a row is not small matter to be cast aside while Lin Dan ? He has been messing around in the All England yet he reached the finals SIX times in a row because he purposely got defeated by Bao Chunlai and then he reached the finals again twice in a row. ho knows Lin Dan is going to reach the final again in 2013 .

    To me, All England is the best indicator of how great the player actually is. I am not really convinced by Rudy Hartono's because he won them because Chinese players never competed in All England and he had Liem Swie King and some Indonesian players to let him break Erland Kops' record. Even Erland Kops was quite unhappy once and said Rudy Hartono had "help" to break his record.

    Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei's run in All England are simply amazing followed by Morten Frost and Liem Swie King.
    The above claim of yours, I have to disagree somewhat and qualify my view.

    In the past, when the AE is the de facto world championship, yes, you're right it's the best indicator of how great a player is. But ever since the BWF World Championships(formerly IBF) is instituted, officially the world champion is no longer the AE winner as the AE tournament is then relegated to one of the major titles, just like any of the SS/SSP now;otherwise you'd end up having two world champions in the same year,creating confusion and diminishing its status and recognition if the two winners are not the same player.

    So in modern times,the number of times you win the AE and any of the SS/SSP and WC is an indicator of greatness - just winning the AE alone is not sufficient. However,undeniably,the AE continues to have a special place for its long tradition and history,including nostalgia.

  7. #3220
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    ....................

    Attachment 125505

  8. #3221
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    ....................

    Attachment 125505
    Wow, Lin Dan Genuine Orgasm!!! WoW!!!

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    Err...the above mag,where is it available? Bi-lingual edition?

    Enjoy your subtle humour,posting the pic without saying anything, but those who don't read Chinese may miss the "interesting" point or imagine a bit too much.

  10. #3223
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    Wow, Lin Dan Genuine Orgasm!!! WoW!!!
    Friend,did you interpret it right, though it's implied, without the Chinese word "性 (s*x/sexual) in front of "高潮, it means "climax", not necessarily "orgasm"?

    But too late,you've let the cat out of the bag !

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    Wow, Lin Dan Genuine Orgasm!!! WoW!!!
    what? where is they saying it? too bad i can't read mandarin. hhh

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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    To me, All England is the best indicator of how great the player actually is. I am not really convinced by Rudy Hartono's because he won them because Chinese players never competed in All England and he had Liem Swie King and some Indonesian players to let him break Erland Kops' record. Even Erland Kops was quite unhappy once and said Rudy Hartono had "help" to break his record.
    umm, are you sure about it? do you have any proof on it? because i think it's not good to tainted someone achievements with some unclear theories. as much as i don't like it happen to my fave players (i.e. LD and others), i also won't hope it happen to other players as well.

  13. #3226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Friend,did you interpret it right, though it's implied, without the Chinese word "性“ (s*x/sexual) in front of "高潮“, it means "climax", not necessarily "orgasm"?

    But too late,you've let the cat out of the bag !
    what do the yellow words above "Genuine" say and mean? anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    what? where is they saying it? too bad i can't read mandarin. hhh
    Ahem, the four characters next to Lin Dan's right shoulder, namely "真实高潮“, which in English means genuine/true "真实“ and climax(orgasm, implied meaning)"高潮”.

    Don't you think it's high time you learn some Chinese? You know, Jim Rogers,who has relocated to Singapore with his family,an American investment guru and co-founder of the Quantum Fund with George Soros, has on a few public occasions said the best advice he can give any parent is to teach his/her children and grandchildren Chinese.

    “Probably the best advice I can give to anyone, anywhere in the world, is to have your children and grandchildren learn Mandarin. For their generation, Mandarin and English will be the most important languages in the world,”
    Jim Rogers in his book “A Gift to My Children: A Father’s Lessons for Life and Investing”.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRfpAAIjEek
    http://l2chinese.wordpress.com/2010/...rning-chinese/
    http://www.exploreasianow.com/my-int...ning-mandarin/

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    what do the yellow words above "Genuine" say and mean? anyone?
    The yellow wording is a bit too small or blur, so I 'll hazard a guess, it says: With excitement(or arousal)(this is) how it becomes, then followed by the four words Genuine Climax(orgasm), correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    The yellow wording is a bit too small or blur, so I 'll hazard a guess, it says: With excitement(or arousal)(this is) how it becomes, then followed by the four words Genuine Climax(orgasm), correct me if I'm wrong.
    Sorry,moderators,have I unwittingly or inadvertently crossed the boundary of Se*ually explicit language? If yes,please feel free to delete this and the adjacent post #3228,my apologies.

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    xxf will have her claws out. meow...

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