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  1. #86
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    at the moment he's the most complete player in my opinion

  2. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    can be easily explained without claiming "great improvement" in LD's techniques etc.

    Let's compare LD and CY/FHF. Why is LD dominating while CY/FHF is not? Let's check.

    When they appear in the world scene in 2003, their major opponents are

    For LD: CH, XXZ (China); LHI (Korea); PG (Denmark); TH (Indonesia).
    For CY/FHF: Candra,Sigit,Tony (Indonesia); Kim/Ha (Korea); LP/JR, YE/MLH (Denmark); CTF/LWW (Malaysia).

    5 years later, naturally these opponents are getting old and not at the same level as before, many even have retired. So let's see how many new opponents at the similar level have appeared.

    For LD: LCW (Malaysia).
    For CY/FHF: MK/HS (Indonesia); JJS/LYD (Korea); KKK/TBH (Malaysia).

    It's pretty clear why LD is dominating while CY/FHF is not. If there are no MK/HS and JJS/LYD, CY/FHF would be much more dominant, similar to LD.
    why bring up MD dominance into this thread?

  3. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zabee View Post
    at the moment he's the most complete player in my opinion
    Really sad that there are no real talents up and coming.
    oldies like PG, TH and near veteran lvl like BCL, PSH, BP etc still levels above the newer players.
    Unlike when LD, BCL, burst onto the scene and later LCW.
    They had very strong competition but were still able to upset and win tourneys which the latest batch of players have not been up to scratch.

  4. #89
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    Of course players become more complete as they mature. What I am trying to say is that, the current dominance of LD can be attained without great improvement on techniques/power.

    Basically, a 2004 LD with today's experience, and with today's luxury of choosing tournaments to attend, will be able to dominate today's MS. First, with more experience, he will not lose to lesser players like Ronald Susilo. On the other hand, the number of top competitors are much less than before. Let's check his record with LCW. LD's head to head to LCW is 13:6. As two of the 6 losses are in Malaysia, and LD is not attending MAS open since 08, what we have is a 13:4 H2H. That's 3:1. What is LD vs LCW's H2H in 2008-09 (many ppl claim LD in 2008-09 is much stronger than before)? 5:2. So, if LD has improved a lot, so has LCW. If LCW has improved a lot, so has Sony. ... Everyone has improved a lot.

    Summarizing, LD is not losing to lesser players today (can be explained by experience and maturity); LD is keeping the ~3:1 H2H ratio against LCW, the only top contender today. You see, dominance is inevitable even if LD hasn't evolved from human to superhuman.

    Quote Originally Posted by volcom View Post
    In those earlier years, LD is not as complete as he is now.
    Even though he was still dominant, but not to todays extent. He is definitely much better than the new and upcoming players nowadays comparing at the same age.
    Just like TH compared to CL at the same age.
    Last edited by ye333; 11-02-2009 at 12:21 PM.

  5. #90
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    Default Legend

    My dad, grandfather and uncle used to tell me stories of the great Rudy Hartono, Liem Swie King, The Thing etc etc. They say these were great legends of the game and I was always envious of them for being able to watched such great legends in action during their playing days.

    But now with LD, I must say I am glad too that I get to witness a living legend.

    LD, the true MS WR#1.

    Will the current poser please stand aside and hail the true WR#1.

  6. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Of course players become more complete as they mature. What I am trying to say is that, the current dominance of LD can be attained without great improvement on techniques/power.

    Basically, a 2004 LD with today's experience, and with today's luxury of choosing tournaments to attend, will be able to dominate today's MS. First, with more experience, he will not lose to lesser players like Ronald Susilo. On the other hand, the number of top competitors are much less than before. Let's check his record with LCW. LD's head to head to LCW is 13:6. As two of the 6 losses are in Malaysia, and LD is not attending MAS open since 08, what we have is a 13:4 H2H. That's 3:1. What is LD vs LCW's H2H in 2008-09 (many ppl claim LD in 2008-09 is much stronger than before)? 5:2. So, if LD has improved a lot, so has LCW. If LCW has improved a lot, so has Sony. ... Everyone has improved a lot.

    Summarizing, LD is not losing to lesser players today (can be explained by experience and maturity); LD is keeping the ~3:1 H2H ratio against LCW, the only top contender today. You see, dominance is inevitable even if LD hasn't evolved from human to superhuman.
    I doubt it. In 2004, LD is only a good player. His burst into the scene is helped by his capability to sustain an attack and that caught many players. The 2004 LD started crumbling when his famed speed and attacks did not work. Against RS (OG2004), LD literally killed himself. He also got thrashed by Taufik at WC2005 by playing into Taufik's strength. This shows the vulnerability of the 2004 LD.

    Today's LD is better and faster in every aspect of the game, physical, mental and strategic. You undermine LD's improvement if you do not see the new expanse in his game. LD's game did not just "mature", it evolved into a multi-facet game. He played a vastly different game in AE2009 than OG2008. Netplays and long rallies are no longer LD's achilles heel -- he became really good at them.

  7. #92
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    I must agree that Lin Dan has indeed improved alot. I saw the WC2005 match between LD and Taufik and comparing it with the present day LD, there's indeed a dramatic difference.

    Both his attack and defence is so much stronger now than before.

  8. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrerkiko View Post
    I believe Lin dan is better than Zhao Jian hua, Sun Jun, & Yang Yang ,bros here agreed ?
    Better in what? well, while ZHao Jian Hua,Yang Yang, Sun Jun,played the system are not like now, and you must get attention that LD behaviour improved from arrogant to calm,,,,so every players have their own era, and behaviour important to value

  9. #94
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    It is amazing when you watch both the match between PG vs TH and LD vs TH of the France SS 09 back to back. PG was troubling with TH's smashes while LD just handled casually.

  10. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeyeh View Post
    I doubt it. In 2004, LD is only a good player. His burst into the scene is helped by his capability to sustain an attack and that caught many players. The 2004 LD started crumbling when his famed speed and attacks did not work. Against RS (OG2004), LD literally killed himself. He also got thrashed by Taufik at WC2005 by playing into Taufik's strength. This shows the vulnerability of the 2004 LD.

    Today's LD is better and faster in every aspect of the game, physical, mental and strategic. You undermine LD's improvement if you do not see the new expanse in his game. LD's game did not just "mature", it evolved into a multi-facet game. He played a vastly different game in AE2009 than OG2008. Netplays and long rallies are no longer LD's achilles heel -- he became really good at them.
    yup, when LD first came onto the scene, people thot the NSS encouraged more smashing and less rallying but in MS, it is still better to play smart. Also, when LD was young, he has so much energy and speed. If u look at his old matches, i see him move much faster than today. Now, he is older and thotful on his shots. Being generous is no longer a detriment to his game. He can afford it with extra gears as spares
    Last edited by cooler; 11-03-2009 at 05:29 PM.

  11. #96
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    Default ^^Enjoy it lah..^^

    ..while he still has what it takes..

  12. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by volcom View Post
    Really sad that there are no real talents up and coming.
    oldies like PG, TH and near veteran lvl like BCL, PSH, BP etc still levels above the newer players.
    Unlike when LD, BCL, burst onto the scene and later LCW.
    They had very strong competition but were still able to upset and win tourneys which the latest batch of players have not been up to scratch.
    There were Bao Chunlai who look promising but fated , had real high hope for him to improve and break into the elite group. He plays similar to LD but lack the consistency on the court.

    I dont think we are running out of talent (there are a few upcoming) , it is just LCW and LD play in their league of their own at the moment in time and there is much catching up for the youngsters to do before they can pose a threat to the kings of badminton

  13. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wong8Egg View Post
    It is amazing when you watch both the match between PG vs TH and LD vs TH of the France SS 09 back to back. PG was troubling with TH's smashes while LD just handled casually.
    AGE is the factor here

  14. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    AGE is the factor here
    age limiting smashing or age limiting picking up TH's smashes?

  15. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    age limiting smashing or age limiting picking up TH's smashes?
    both of course.... but to LD and other pros out there aged much younger that th, its not a problem!

  16. #101
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    PG is older than TH??

  17. #102
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    yup Gade is around 33 .. Hidayat is still in his late 20's ...

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