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  1. #18
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    Default Re: In or out

    since Sum had asked whether 'in or out', i gave you guys the 'out' answer. In reality, the umpire would call it fault, as rationalized by kwun. But i don't know how kwun rationalize david's interpretation?

  2. #19
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    Default Re: In or out

    According to the rule Kwun cited, to be out the shuttle has to strike an object *outside* the immediate surroundings of the court. If the poles are on the doubles lines (and the game is doubles), then it is reasonable to say the poles are not outside the immediate surroundings of the court. On this interpretation striking the top of the pole would be no worse than striking the net cord.

  3. #20
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    Default Re: In or out

    I have never seen this situation happen in the past year and a half. The several times I can recall a shuttle hitting the post it either bounce out or backwards, definitely not over and in the other court. Just curious here, but how often have any of you encountered this situation with the bird hitting the post and going in?

    It seems that the inside-outside of the post sub-argument has a pretty easy answer. If the shuttle hits the outside (i.e. side away from the court) of the post with sufficient power to be noticed, it seems like basic physics would require the shuttle to rebound or deflect from the post, thereby going out of the court.

  4. #21
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default Re: In or out

    law of physics... if the shuttle passes by the outside pole within a few microns and the pole is so heavy compare to the shuttle that it gravitation force creates a "slingshot" effect, thus drawing the shuttle back into the court...

  5. #22
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default Re: In or out

    as for how often this happens, one of these days, you may be playing the finals of your favorite local tournament, you are on your 3rd game, you have your 2nd service at 16-16, and <b>whack</b>, the shuttle hit to top of the pole and lands on the inside of your opponent court..............

  6. #23
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default Re: In or out

    i was actually questioning the umpire's implied interpretation that "the poles are outside of the court's immediate surroundings".

    when i said the case was "borderline", i really meant it literally, the pole marks the boundary between the court and it's surrounding (outside). since the birdie on the boundary lines are call IN in badminton, i think it makes more sense for it to be in play when the shuttle hits the pole.

    however, not all rules are sensical.

  7. #24
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default i found it!

    i found a clause in the Laws of badminton that can clarify our confusion:

    A shuttle is not in play when:

    15.2 it strikes the net or post and starts to fall towards the surface of the court on the striker's side of the net;

    in other words, if the shuttle strikes the pole and fall towards the <i>receiver side</i> of the court, it is still IN PLAY, and thus if it falls inside the court on the receiver side, it should be called IN.

  8. #25
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    Default Re: In or out

    Sum's situation would never happen in real IBF sanctioned tournaments as the net posts are stationed outside the line. Since non-qualified posts doesnt conform to IBF badminton equipment specification, the non-qualified posts stationed on the line itself are and should be considered as an outside object. Yes, under recreational environment, i would call it IN too as it is a amazing shot (i did it once too and saw twice done it by my badminton friends). But if u ask an umpire to official Sum's game, that umpire would call it OUT. Since 99% of recreational players doesn't know what's what in the IBF rule book, it is hard for them to accept the real official verdict.

  9. #26
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    Default Re: In or out

    Wow Kwun, you must be using some plutonium core posts out in CA! Maybe you have been sneaking them out of nuclear reactors, which would also explain why your state has no power. There are a lot of pissed off Holleywood types sitting in the dark worrying about the heat effecting their hair styles and their 2000 bottle, no longer 57 degrees, wine cellars, who would try to run you down with their Porche Boxsters if they found out about your little game....

    Your tournament match scenario is not impossible, but I'm guessing you haven't run into this situation before either? Maybe I'm just not quick and mobile enough (one of my 126 weaknesses playing this sport), but I can't really remember getting that far out of court to hit a shot that could go in after hitting the top of the post.

    I had something vaguely like that happen last week, but just in casual league play. It was a really close doubles game, we were serving at 15-14 and I hit a drive too hard, but it nicked one of my opponents' racquet before going out. I heard the shuttle-racquet contact, my partner distinctly heard the contact and I think the other opposing player did too, from the uncertain expression on his face at his partner's reaction. However, the first opp. player maintained, very adamently, that the shuttle had not touched his racquet and that he heard nothing. I suggested we replay the point, but we ended up just giving it to him. Unfortunately, after about four or five side outs without scoring, they went on a little three-point streak and that was the match. The game did not mean anything, though, and my hard-of-hearing friend is a good guy, so I'm sure it was just an honest mistake. Maybe I'll bring him some Q-Tips tonight.

  10. #27
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default Re: In or out

    yeah. those hollywood type, if they want power, just come by to our local gym here, let us smash at them a few times, then they'll know what <b>power</b> really means.


    you're right, i haven't ran into that scenarios before, it was just a extreme hypothetical situation, but hey you never know...

  11. #28
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    Default Re: In or out

    yes, logical sense say it would be IN. However, there are hundred of thousands of non IBF conforming posts found around school gyms, community halls, church gyms, recreational centres, etc and they are all different diameters, heights and method of attaching the net to the post. Some are even multipurpose posts used for volleyballs. The point is that not all school yard posts are 5' 1" tall. Anyway, this umpire that i was talking with say he would call it a fault. He say it's not because the post is on the line of not, it is because he do officialling in all different kind of places and cities, he cannot be sure what heights all the posts are, he only measures all the net heights before the tournaments. He doesn't go measure the post height nor has control on the type or the condition of the posts used.

    Let revisit the two laws kwun had kindly digged up for us.

    13.2.6 say striking any object outside the court are ruled out.
    is in conflict with 15.2 if the posts are erected outside the out line, wouldn't it?

  12. #29
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    Default 99%

    My comment about 99% of recreational players not knowing the rulebook does not imply to people of badmintoncentral. I was referring to badminton players that i played recreationally with. So sorry.

  13. #30
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    Default Re: In or out

    Sum, sorry if i've mislead you. I have went back and looked over many photos of IBF conforming net setup. Under those configuration, the shuttle rowing over the net and landed in should be called IN as correctly called by many poster here. The original interpretation derived from my conversation with the umpire was due to at that (college) tournament, all the badminton posts were anchored outside the double lines, so his ruling of shuttle hitting the top of post and landed in was considered OUT because the shuttle had to go out of bound to hit the post top.
    So in conclusion, it really come down to whether the net setup conform 5' 1" high and the post located right on the double side lines.

  14. #31
    budi
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    Default Re: In or out

    IT IS IN

  15. #32
    Pebulutangkis
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    Default Re: In or out

    hey abt the pole thing my fren told me his fren actually ran so fast that he could not break and rammed into the pole head on, and the pole actually fell. that guy's head was bleeding like hell. i just cant imagine how the hell he can't break coz i know the surface he's playing on is not slippery.

  16. #33
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    Default hmmm, strange rule at badminton

    when you drop on the "tower" (where the net hang on <-- it stand OUT the field) and the shuttle bounch back into the field you score. My trainer said it was true but i still can't believe it. because every field have another standing of the "towers" and size. normally badminton equipment = racket , shuttle, field, net and players isnt it? :s why the *uc*in* "towers ? Are there already discussions at the badminton staff the erase that rule if it is really true?

  17. #34
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    Default

    I also want to know this too because I have done this several times in my club, but the people in my club said it does not count. So thank you for reminding me about this, Kevin.

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