i have noticed recently that if you hold the raquet futher down you get more power with less effort a friend of mine described it almost as if you let go of the raquet at the end and let its wheight continue through the shot - rather than your swing being tense the whole way through ... and muscling the shot... this swing is only tense/muscled forward at the beginning - at the end its loose. i haev noticed more power - but its difficult to control because you often loosen up right to the grip which lacks control...but if you can balance the raquet in the right direction right through it makes for much better clears and much harder smashes it is however harder to play doubles with this grip - i have noticed.
Do you mean holding the racquet at the butt end? If yes, then you are effectively playing with a longer racquet. A longer racquet generates more swingweight, and more swingweight means more power.
in science, less effort is needed to move a load when the force is placed further away from the fulcrum, understand
The rule of thumb is your racket grip is like the court, when at the back your grip should be long, when at the front your grip should be short!!! Long grip gives power Short grip gives control
But does that apply here. Con you clarify where the fulcrum is and where the force is when we hold the racquet. And then what is different when we hold the racquet in a different place.
I'm also wondering that I would think that less force is needed when you hold the racket higher up the grip. http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2691 I think Cheung says the pivot is the index finger
Think of the arm in the forehand stroke as a trebuchet. A typical trebuchet has three distinguishable stages: (i) a massive ballast stage; (ii) a catapult arm stage; and (iii) a leather sash which forms the final throwing stage. The physics of a trebuchet involves transfer of angular momentum from the first stage to the second stage to the third stage. The first stage of the forehand stroke should be shoulder rotation. After maximum angular acceleration of the shoulder, angular momentum is then transferred to the upper + fore arm, which then accelerates angularly before transferring angular momentum to the hand + racket, which must then accelerate before striking the shuttle. If we lock the shoulder (by tensing up the muscle there) after shoulder rotation, the angular momentum transfer from first stage to second stage becomes ineffective. Similarly, if we lock the wrist after fore arm rotation (to include pronation, which transfer more angular momentum transfer to the hand + racket, the angular momentum from second stage to third stage becomes ineffective. Lesson to learn: tension the joints during angular momentum transfer, but relax the joints after angular momentum transfer.
yes, I understand all that (and use it) Can you tell me what difference it makes where we grip the racquet? Will the racquet head be faster or slower if we grip right at the butt? I thought fanatico was confusing it with Archimedes being able to move the Earth if he had an immoveable fulcrum and a long enough lever.
Depending on which method of holding the racquet you use. Look up Kwun's thread on gripping the racquet with the 'pinky' finger.
Sorry Neils, my remarks are directed at fanatico actually. As for where to grip, my understanding (from a physics point of view) is this: the speed with which the shuttle leaves the racket head is the most important factor determining its trajectory. This speed is generated by the racket head speed at impact. As far as the shuttle is concerned, it does not matter whether you grip the racket at the end of the handle, or at the T-joint (like a ping pong paddle), as long as the racket head speed is achieved. However, to the player, there are two competing concerns: (1) the time it takes to generate the racket head speed; and (2) the effort it takes to generate the racket head speed. Gripping the racket at the end of the handle reduces the effort required to generate the desired racket head speed, but increases the time it takes to do so. Gripping the racket at the cone reduces the time to generate the desired racket head speed, but increases the effort to do so. I imagine it would be possible for me to always grip at the cone, no matter where I stand in the court, but if the opponent engage me in a baseline-to-baseline clearing contest the effort to continuously clear would drain me...
i'd also want to add that the mass that takes the most force to move is actually not the racket but the flesh and bones of your arm and fingers. at some point, there will be a diminishing return in the energy you spend in propelling the whole mechanism including the arm. when you cannot swing your arm to swing the racket any faster, then a slightly longer effective racket length (ie. gripping the end of the handle) will help.
Insightful analysis, cheongsa. kwun brings up a good point as well. Allow me, if you will, to toss a bit more physics into this discussion. Most strokes in badminton have the racket travelling thru an arc (the complete motion of the arm & racket may actually be a bit more complex than just a simple arc in reality). For a given angular velocity (w), points on the racket that are furthest from the hand have greatest tangential velocity. Or, to put is another way, the tangential velocity (v) of any point is proportional to its distance (r) from the axis of rotation;for sake of simplicity, I'll say that (some part of) the hand represents this axis. v = wr This says that the tip (far end) of the racket has a greater linear velocity than some point on the shaft. It also says that tip is travelling faster than the sweetspot (the spot where the stingbed is considered to be most responsive). Whereas the sweetspot may be close to optimum for a drive shot, some point further up in the stringbed would likely be more optimal for strokes that have the racket (head) traveling in more of an arc motion. Even tho' it is going the fastest, the stringbed near the tip is probably not the optimum point of contact since the bed is very unresponsive close to the frame & would not yield the optimum tranfer of speed to the shuttle. If we lengthen the racket (by gripping it lower, for instance), then we are increasing the tangential (linear) velocity for all points on the stringbed for a given angular velocity. When we speak of racket head speed we are simplifying for the most part. Altho' all parts of the racket head might have the same angular velocity, different points on the stringbed have different linear velocities as mentioned above. So, when speaking of racket head speed, perhaps it's best to think of it as angular velocity. The 1st of cheongsa's competing concerns (the time it takes to generate the racket head speed) has a lot to do with rotational inertia... the resistance to any change in rotation of a body is known as its rotational inertia (or moment of inertia). Just as mass resists any change in linear motion, rotational inertia resists speeding up or slowing down of rotational motion. Rotational inertia (I) is determined by the axis of rotation, the shape (including length) of an object & its mass. We can think of these factors as the distribution of the mass (of the racket) for a given axis of rotation. For those who may be mathematically inclined: I = ò (r)**2 dm When we choke up on the racket grip, we reduce rotational inertia... we can accelerate the racket head more quickly. When we lengthen the racket, we increase its rotational inertia which tends to reduce angular acceleration. If the angular acceleration is reduced then angular velocity also tends to be reduced. However since the the length of the racket is increased by gripping it lower, the tangential velocities for a given angular velocity is increased. Altho' we certainly seem to be able to achieve/generate greater shuttle speeds by lenghtening the racket, I'm not completely convinced that we really reduce the effort required to do so (altho' it certainly seems that this might be the case).
I concur Doctor.... LOL!!! Its good that we don't have to compute that equation with every swing.. else badminton will be the slowest game in the world... hehe
Well one other way to see it is to compare with golf clubs.... in Golf - distance is about club head speed (and loft) ...thats why the woods are longer than most irons and the driver is usually the longest club in the bag!
Actually badminton is of the third class lever where the force is in the middle and the load and fulcrum are at the ends. The racquet face hitting the shuttle is the load and the fulcrum is somewhere around the butt area. Now third class lever is different from first and second class lever in that the further is the distance of the force from the fulcrum, the lesser the load that can be attained. In other words if you hold the handle higher, you lose power (force) because it is further away from the fulcrum.
That's partly right, and partly wrong. For a start, the mechanics of a badminton swing are too complex to be analysed in terms of simple levers. You would need at least 3 levers, and even then you would not have accounted for all the motion involved. But supposing that we do make this simple analysis, then as you say, a type-3 lever is a better description. In a type-3 lever, the force required to lift (or otherwise set in motion) a mass increases with the length of the lever. In the case of badminton, this means that using a longer grip requires more effort to make the racket head move. But that effort is translated into kinetic energy in the racket movement. It is not lost. Compare a long and a short grip. Given the same angular swing speed of the arm, the racket will move with the same angular speed. Yes, it will take more effort to start it moving - but a racket is quite light anyway, and the swing speed is more limited by how fast we are able to move our arm than by how strong we are. If in both cases the same (or damn close) angular racket speeds are achieved, then the longer grip will give greater linear momentum (linear speed) at the point of contact. So when using a longer grip, it requires more effort to get the same angular swing speed. But the total momentum generated in the racket head will be greater. With a short grip, it requires less effort - so a short grip allows us to accelerate the racket head more rapidly, which is useful for quick reactions.
Sorry for the big mistake I've made. The paragraphs should be corrected as follows : Now third class lever is the same as the first and second class lever in that the further is the distance of the force from the fulcrum, the more the load that can be attained. In other words if you hold the handle higher, you gain power (force) because it is further away from the fulcrum. Much apology By the way, thanks very much Gollum for the clear explanation. You described the third lever class correctly.
I think holding the racket loosely and hold it further back are two different issues. However, to achieve a correct swing, it is easier to hold a racket loosely by holding the handle near the end. The way I see it, holding loosely at mid to upper part of the handle is not quite as easy. Holding a racket loosly makes it easier to swing the racket when compared to a tight grip which the racket itself tends to move slower when you swing it due to the wrist tends more freely and faster with a loose grip when compared to a tight grip. This can probably be demonstrated with a tight fist and you will notice your wrist becomes much more rigid. Its just an observation but you can try it for yourself. I normally teach beginners to hold the racket with this type of loose grip. It tends to allow them to use the wrist right away. I would always show them how to hit the shuttle using the weight of the racket and not with the arm in the beginning. Best example, take a racket and hold it with your playing hand very loosely and let it drop on your other arm or hand in a simple arc. You will notice its weight and it might even hurt. Thats the same effect you want done on the shuttle. Most of the beginners notice immediate improvements on the distance of clears. Try it out. As far are as less effort goes, I noticed it is more effortless but seems my forearm gets more sore after I play alot of games using a loose grip.
