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12-09-2004, 10:55 PM #1
How can a pro tell a bird is out by just 1 inch
So many times I saw a pro moving backward, but stopped 3 or 4 feet in front of the base line knowing the bird was going out, and the bird ended up out by just 1 or 2 inches. And they did so without looking at the lines on the floor because they were looking at the bird all the time. I wonder how they did it. Did they go through special training on judging a bird is out or not?
12-09-2004, 11:00 PM #2
i believe it is experience. most of us can do it to a certain extent. a pro spends all their lives watching birdies goes up and down the badminton gym millions of time. soon they get a feel of how the birdie will fly and how far they will fly.
there was someone who reported that once Ra played a tournament, she only needed to watch the birdie when it gets hit, and then she can automatically move to the exact location where it will end up without having to keep her eye on the shuttle. then she look up and hits it. she knew exactly where it will end up just by seeing how it is hit.
12-09-2004, 11:13 PM #3
The problem is that I myself have problem judging whether the bird is out, and a lot of times trying to return a high clear back 2 or 3 feet behind the base line. Hope to get some clues or ideas to help myself.
12-10-2004, 12:07 AM #4
Put your foot on the line, and use that as a mental marker.
Or judge your distance from the base. Once your move off three steps to the rear, or one step left or right, then if the shuttle is "too far to reach," it's out ... well technically, anyway. Once you make a few false calls, you'll get the feel of it
12-10-2004, 12:13 AM #5
actually, this is a good topic. i said by experience, which is probably true, but experience comes from practice as well. if we can train doing lifts and clears, why not train for judging the line. here is an idea:
do a regular drill that involves the baseline, say, drop-net-drop-net. whenever you get to the baseline, be bold about leaving the birdie, if you think it even get close to out, leave it. and see how well your judgement is, then as you do more and more of that, your mental prediction should improve.
i haven't done that myself, instead i mostly learn from playing games or doing half court singles rallies. but as i said, why not?
12-10-2004, 11:54 AM #6
Originally Posted by kwun
12-10-2004, 12:37 PM #7
im starting to "know" when the birdie is out... but as other ppl said... it's all about experience...
12-10-2004, 01:18 PM #8
The more you play the better instinct you get. It must be true that the pros can judge where the bird is going to land by just watching the initial flying speed/direction of the bird. Sometime they let go of the close-called birds when they are standing nowhere near the line.
Also because they are so use to the court, by being at the court so much, they have strong precise sense of where the side/baselines are no matter where they are standing in the court. (MJ doesn’t have to look at the basket when making the free throw. Baddy is the same)
They can sense it so precisely, I guess that’s why a slight air flow caused by air conditioning would throw their judgment off.
12-10-2004, 05:33 PM #9
Look like it's mostly experience. But thanks Kwun and wood_22_chuck for giving some tips that I can try.
12-10-2004, 05:47 PM #10
My coach teaches the three step rule (the rule that says you should reach any part of the court with only 3 steps). For back court shots, he says that if your are standing in the middle of the court, you do two steps back and a hop and you still cant hit the birdie, it is out. If you are at the fron of the court and you have to do more than three steps and a hop, it is also out. Sidelines, im not too sure , pure experience
12-10-2004, 07:33 PM #11
depends on how big ur strides r... just ask the person that u r playing with to hit it close to the lines for u to practice judgment on the lines
12-10-2004, 07:35 PM #12
i play since 6 years and in can judge a one inch out frequently i don't say anytime but lots of the time i'm right. In practicing you get all the terrain in you mind and like other says you can judge with the number of step you do. Its all about practice and practice
12-10-2004, 08:03 PM #13
As per Kwuns reply, it is all down to experience and we gain that by being able to judge how shots are hit.
When a shuttle is hit there are indicators to look out for, sound, speed, angle etc.
If a shuttle is coming at you, there is a point where you'll leave it because you feel it is too fast or too high to hit it back becasue it is out. Some just sound as if they have been hit too hard and you'll guess they are out.
What you should also notice is that the pros hit shuttles that are out as well, so they are by no means perfect, they are just more experienced and make mistakes like the rest of us, allbeit less frequently.
12-12-2004, 01:44 PM #14
Rhythm and energy
I tend to judge birds better in midgame than in early or late game. By 'early' or 'late', and 'mid', i mean, i make better judgements when i"m already warmed up, but in opposition, i make bad judgements when I'm getting tired.
And I almost never look to my back (unless in doubles and I want to make a quick check of where my partner is).
But anyway: I find that during my midgame, i can judge pretty well. However, i find this is because this is mostly because this is the time when i'm on my game-- not too cold, not to tired, and not too anxious. Mentality has a lot to do with it i think.
When i'm tired, or mentally disturbed, i tend to 'force more', probably out of desperation, and thus the rhythm of my steps to get around the court are quicker, though probably less efficient-- and sometimes because of that, there are variations in how quickly i back up, which might throw off my judgement of distance. On the other hand, when i'm starting out, I tend to take longer 'softer' steps because it feels as if the muscles aren't ready just yet to do my standard average strides.
So for me at least, one of the major factors which i attribute to my successful baseline judging is the speed and rhthm of my footwork, which is closely related to my mental state. of course, all of this also varries according to the angle and height of your opopnent's shot, not to mention the current game conditions, but given a hypothetical sitaution where he does a supremely high and deep clear, and i have the choice of getting there "this fast" or "THIS FAST" or "this smoothly" or "this agressively", my choice will change unconciously depending on my frame of mind. I've sorta conciously tried to get myself to be consistent-- not to 'over attack' the clear for example. Always, always handle the hypothetical 'perfect clear' with the same rhythm and speed. Not that over-attacking or being agressive is necessarily a bad thing if your shot is better in the end, but at least, if you want to be able to judge the bird properly then you have to be able to put it into some sorta imaginary emperical system. Often we just say "experience" or "intuition" due to experience, but what it is in reality is that we've practiced a situation enough that our brain fills in the gaps because we set the conditions as favorably as possible to do the technique-- wether it's a stroke, or judging an out bird. This is why we do drills-- sure, the best way to learn badminton is to play badminton, but the best way our brains adapt our bodies and make us more consistent players is through more 'efficient' and 'focused' training.
I think an emphasis on consistency is paramount... practice to fit the bird into your game no matter what, don't let the bird play you.
On another note, for 'lower clears', i find it's also helpful to judge based on where i am standing relative to the net. In the YMCA court I play at, it's probably even easier, because the floors have markings for other kinds of courts, and i've gotten used to judging according to those as well. I have noticed when i go to other gyms without the extra lines, i'm a little bit more lost.
Although to judge really high clears... practice.
12-12-2004, 03:48 PM #15
Remember they dont always.
I think if you watch any game you will see the pros leave shuttles and they are in, and hit shuttles when they are out (or at least appear to be going out).
It is difficult to decide, because some shots go slow and some go fast. Smashes are one, many ppl leave them if they appear to be going out, but wouldnt be able to get the shot back well. Think if the opponents is smashing from midcourt and it looks like going out you might leave it, since a smash from midcourt would be difficult to return, and low chance of winning the point from there. you will be more likely to leave it if it looked close than if it was a smash from the back of the court, that was easier to return, and so more likely to win the rally from.
Serves can be more accurate, since they mainly go slow (short or high serves anyway) and they are generally always close to the line, so your eyes and mind are better adapted to them. Flick serves however are faster, less frequent in the game, and you generally give a weak reply if it is a good serve, hence more judgment errors are made, because people leave them "hoping" they will go out since they wouldnt be able to give a quality reply anyway.
12-12-2004, 05:19 PM #16
its actually quite easy for a pro to judge...its like..they take 2 steps to the base line...the can judge it easily...jus that i dunno how to explain...and mainly like Kwun said...experience
12-12-2004, 05:51 PM #17
when i started playing badminton, i couldn't get a lot of the shots that required footwork so i was used to looking at the floor and know which types of shots r out... knowing how many steps, what to look for etc...
now i find that when "i can't reach it", it's like this automatic brain pulse telling me it's out... (even tho i could go for it)
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