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  1. #1
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    Question How To Post Scores?

    When posting scores of a match, obviously, the score on the left represents the player/team

    example: Winners 12-15, 15-10, 17-14
    the match went to 3 games, lost the first, won the last 2 with setting on the 3rd

    My questions are...

    (1) what would you post as the score (or acronym) if in the above example the 3rd game did not finish (?dnf?) and the opponents (Losers) "surrendered" at 6-11

    (2) if the opponent(s) did not show-up and defaulted (?def?) the match

    (3) not too sure if this will ever occur, after the match has started, the player/team did something that got them disqualified (?dq?)

    Cheers!

  2. #2
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    i usually say something like:

    Player A beat Player B 15/0 - 15/1

    if there is a withdrawl or DQ, then:

    Player A beat Player B 0/15 - 0/8 (w/o)

    something that i cannot make up my mind, is which convention i use:

    15/0 - 15/0

    or

    15-0 / 15-0

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun
    something that i cannot make up my mind, is which convention i use:

    15/0 - 15/0

    or

    15-0 / 15-0
    i'd say, to use 15-0 , 15-0. but 15/0 is more convenient , since the ''/'' sign is nearer my ( ) reach.
    Last edited by Anatolii; 12-14-2004 at 02:49 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Break-My-String
    When posting scores of a match, obviously, the score on the left represents the player/team

    example: Winners 12-15, 15-10, 17-14
    the match went to 3 games, lost the first, won the last 2 with setting on the 3rd

    My questions are...

    (1) what would you post as the score (or acronym) if in the above example the 3rd game did not finish (?dnf?) and the opponents (Losers) "surrendered" at 6-11

    (2) if the opponent(s) did not show-up and defaulted (?def?) the match

    (3) not too sure if this will ever occur, after the match has started, the player/team did something that got them disqualified (?dq?)

    Cheers!
    My suggested answers are:

    (1) Winner: 12-15, 15-10, 6-11 (Retired)
    (2) Winner: Walkover (W/O)
    (3) Score at that point in time, if any - Winner: Disqualification (Haven't seen this before). Maybe one team walks out after an argument which cannot be resolved, even after the Referee's intervention. Wonder how they score Taufik's walkout game against the Korean on disputed line calls. Can't recall details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Break-My-String
    When posting scores of a match, obviously, the score on the left represents the player/team

    example: Winners 12-15, 15-10, 17-14
    the match went to 3 games, lost the first, won the last 2 with setting on the 3rd

    My questions are...

    (1) what would you post as the score (or acronym) if in the above example the 3rd game did not finish (?dnf?) and the opponents (Losers) "surrendered" at 6-11

    (2) if the opponent(s) did not show-up and defaulted (?def?) the match

    (3) not too sure if this will ever occur, after the match has started, the player/team did something that got them disqualified (?dq?)

    Cheers!
    I would second Loh's suggestions except that in the third case, it would be something like the first but with the words "Disqualified" instead of "Retired". I would usually put the winning team/player on the left too.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winex West Can
    I would second Loh's suggestions except that in the third case, it would be something like the first but with the words "Disqualified" instead of "Retired". I would usually put the winning team/player on the left too.
    As BMS did not give details of the "surrender" I thought it more gracious to insert "retired" instead of "disqualified", the latter to me being a harsher term as something like an offence has been committed, such as arguments with and complete disagreement with the Umpire.

    If the stoppage in the third game is a result of injury to one of the players or he suddenly felt sick and could not continue, the word "retired" would be more appropriate to reflect the circumstances. Have to give some face to the unfortunate party.

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    The accepted terms are as short as poss

    Player A wins

    A V B 15-2, 2-15, 17-15.

    Any other problem is as Kwun stated (w/o) irrespective of how they retired from the game, no information about the circumstances are given unless in an after match or tournament press release.

    It is generally accepted that the winners name and score comes first so even if the scores look odd, superceded by w/o that explains the discrepancy with writing the score.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Default Walkover, Retired or Disqualified???

    This evening, I returned more than an hour ago from the Cheers Youth International tournament held at the Singapore Badminton Hall. The main participants are youths of about 12 to 17 years old and come mainly from the nearby countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand apart from Singapore as the host country. There I managed to bring up the 3 'score' questions brought up by BMS with the tournament Referee, who is a qualified IBF umpire with international experience.

    I merely stated the cases and just wait for his answers without attempting to influence him. To my surprise, his answers were nearly the same as WWC's and mine, although he gave me more than what I had hoped for.

    1. Yes, for individual events, the term "Retired" (not "walkover") is used under the circumstances as specified, with the actual scores published as suggested earlier by me.

    However, for team events, like Country A versus Country B, the score for the third game will indicate the winner as having scored 15 points (instead of the actual 11 at that stage) against the losers' 6, i.e. 15-6 for the third game. In team events, this is done to show that the winner has won two games and lost one, which should be the case for a winner. Full points (15)are awarded to the winner in the third game so that in the case of a tie in the number of matches won, the number of games won followed by last, the number of points scored, will be considered in the countback to determine the eventual team winner. This is akin to golf on countback.

    Remember in this scenario, the players were all present at the offical play time, nobody gave a walkover beforehand. They all showed up!

    2. Walkover: Now the opponents did not show up at the official time and after the grace period as specified for the tournament. When the grace period has expired the Umpire can officially declare a walkover against the opponents who did not appear and declare the player or team present as the winner.

    Unlike in point 1, when all the players were present, here one party was absent. In an IBF tournament, it appears that the absent party must show good cause why he can't show up. A doctor's certificate is required if the absent party is sick or injured and as a result can't play without aggravating his condition further. This is so because of ranking points given by IBF. With a valid reason the ranking points will still be awarded to the player even if he can't show up and play.

    Contrary to the notion of keeping scores as brief as possible it is not right and indeed does not reflect the true situation by merely indicating a "walkover" or w/o. In the above two examples, the circumstances were entirely different and it would be an injustice to show a w/o in the first example when the affected party had showed up, played their hearts out but had to concede defeat in the third game because of sudden sickness or injury. The term "retired" would better reflect the story and does convey to the reader that it was not a smiple case of not showing up.

    3. Actually I'm with WWC on this one. What I meant was also to indicate the word "disqualified" as he suggested.

    Of the three scenarios, this is perhaps the worst verdict. Disqualification is not a pleasant term as it connotes that something wrong has occured. The combatants met, fought it out but one party had the ignominy of being disgraced, sacked and forced to lose or surrender his match.

    Example: Player disputed on a line call, confronted the umpire who supported the line-judge's decision. Player was unhappy, raised his voice and threw tantrums. Umpire warned him to keep his cool, but player persisted. Umpire flashed his yellow card but player remained unperturbed and continued to disrupt play despite the umpire's insistence to play on. Umpire flashed his red card now but to no avail. The tournament Referee was consulted and he tried to calm down the player with perhaps an explanation and his decision. Play didn't budge resulting in the Referee drawing out his BLACK card and handed it to the Umpire to flash it and disqualify the player. (Please note that only the Referee holds the BLACK 'trump' card, not the Umpire who has only the yellow and red cards!). The Umpire's authority to overrule the Line Judge is still at the experimental stage.

    I brought out the case of Taufik's disputed line calls incident in South Korea. My friendly Referee recall the case which occured during the last Asian Games. Maybe many of us still remembered that too. Many disputed line calls were made against Taufik when he played his S Korean counterpart. And worse, the discrepancies were shown on TV to support Taufik's case. It was home country for the S Korean judges and Taufik felt the calls were biased against him and he refused to continue. Pandemonium set in and the officlals on both sides, together with the foreign neutral officials, were forced to hold an emergency meeting to sort things out. At last, after about 2 hours, the match resumed, I suppose with neutral judges. (I can't quite remember the details.) In this case, if good sense had not prevailed, Taufik could have been 'disqualified'.

    By the way, my friend told me that these terms can be found in the IBF laws but I have no time to refer to them yet.

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