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  1. #1
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    Default Breakdown/Loss of footwork against better players

    I have noticed lately that when i play better players my footwork breaks down

    against players of my level I am able to get to the center of the court(almost) after I hit my shot - and just before or durring him hitting his shot

    But against better players there is a breakdown of this and the feeling is much different - in a nutshell against better players - I am no longer moving like a badminton player - more like a tennis player - running from one shot to the next in an effot to barely make it to the shuttle.

    It is possible for me to also use my footwork against good players - but only when i concentrate on it - for instance, during the last tournament i played very well at the start against a much more experienced player - I was calm and patient....but as he gained points over me and seemed to learn my style. I lost both my patience and ability to cover the court properly - at the same time I started hitting more and more to the center of the court - not moving him either - so he was able to move me around with out giving much effort.

    anyone else ever had this problem?

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    It almost sounds like you are giving them to easy of shots, so that they are able to keep on the attack not allowing you to re-position yourself. If you work on your shots so that you are able to keep them a little off balance they won't be able to return with as hard of shots to receiv, allowing you to get back into position after each shot.

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    yea, i had those problem a long time ago. The reason for such a breakdown is when your opponent is playing at a faster pace than you usually do your footwork routine, when you're worn out and become slower and sometimes also if you get too heated up in a match. So basically, improve your leg strength and speed and you'll overcome this problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    yea, i had those problem a long time ago. The reason for such a breakdown is when your opponent is playing at a faster pace than you usually do your footwork routine, when you're worn out and become slower and sometimes also if you get too heated up in a match. So basically, improve your leg strength and speed and you'll overcome this problem.
    also good players have better deception so they can waste his opponent reaction time such that opponent is alway working against time or in a constant catch up mode.

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    I agree with all the above posts, having experienced the same problem against better players.

    The question to ask is "what makes this guy a better player than me?" And anything that you can say to to that is the answer why your footwork breaks down against them. Although it's easy to pin the problem on their superior placement and shot speed alone, a good player is not just about what he actively does to attack or deffend against his opponent, but what he does to "passively opress" his opponent's game... eg., he's constantly better positioned, so his reactions are quicker and you have deal with a return faster, etc.

    I find that cooler's point is especially valid... if someone has "predictable shots" or predictable tactics, or if I know what i did wrong on my shot, then I can guesstimate their response... but if they're a particularly deceptive opponent with the power and placement skills to back it up, my footwork is useless if I don't have a vague idea of where I should be going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinryu
    I agree with all the above posts, having experienced the same problem against better players.

    The question to ask is "what makes this guy a better player than me?" And anything that you can say to to that is the answer why your footwork breaks down against them. Although it's easy to pin the problem on their superior placement and shot speed alone, a good player is not just about what he actively does to attack or deffend against his opponent, but what he does to "passively opress" his opponent's game... eg., he's constantly better positioned, so his reactions are quicker and you have deal with a return faster, etc.

    I find that cooler's point is especially valid... if someone has "predictable shots" or predictable tactics, or if I know what i did wrong on my shot, then I can guesstimate their response... but if they're a particularly deceptive opponent with the power and placement skills to back it up, my footwork is useless if I don't have a vague idea of where I should be going.
    if he can read u and gain time on ya, he don't need power and or perfect placement skill

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    if he can read u and gain time on ya, he don't need power and or perfect placement skill
    Well, it doesn't hurt if the player does have power or placement...

    In my own cases, I find it depends on how big the difference is between this "better guy" and myself, and in what areas specifically. If the better guy's predication ability or deception is "good", he might be able to fool me or gain time, but if his other skill areas are lacking, he might not be able to capitalize on whatever openings he creates for himself.

    I suppose, by definition, this hypothetical guy is the "better player" so he'll likely win-- all I'm saying is that it's more efficient for him if he doesn't rely on prediction ability alone, without the power and placement to get through my deffenses. Up to a certain point, having a lot of extra time does not mean you can finish off the kill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinryu
    Well, it doesn't hurt if the player does have power or placement...

    In my own cases, I find it depends on how big the difference is between this "better guy" and myself, and in what areas specifically. If the better guy's predication ability or deception is "good", he might be able to fool me or gain time, but if his other skill areas are lacking, he might not be able to capitalize on whatever openings he creates for himself.

    I suppose, by definition, this hypothetical guy is the "better player" so he'll likely win-- all I'm saying is that it's more efficient for him if he doesn't rely on prediction ability alone, without the power and placement to get through my deffenses. Up to a certain point, having a lot of extra time does not mean you can finish off the kill.
    of course i assume the a player could finish a easy kill (a tap, smash or tight net).

    Up to a certain point, having a lot of extra time does not mean you can finish off the kill


    true, other option is to poop him out and he will make unforce errors or quit running for the shuttle altogether, no kill shot neccessary in this case.

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    hrmmhh... I don't know about you guys, but deception made lots of wonders against me or against my opponents last time. But now, what I do is focus on the shuttle and not move until it moves instead of looking at my opponent's body movement to see what shot will be played. This is probably the more solid game style, the type that is good against deceivers, but the trade off is that you need to be extra hard working on your speed and endurance. I remember someone saying last time that Gong Zhichao doesn't seem to move at all until the shuttle goes past the net, I think I may have adopted to that style.

    This is how I think in a game situation:
    Instead of anticipating an opponent's reply, I try to read and learn what their most probable reply would be and figure out what the best reply would be against him, ofcourse I don't neglect that there is a probability that he'd play a different shot and so I don't rush his shot if he hasn't done it.

    Also I try to read what kind of shots I should play as a bait and what type of shot to play as the "killer strategy". This is backed up by intensely reviewing if he is taking the bait or has figured out the way the bait works. If he has then I have to figure out how he works against the bait and come up with a new "killer strategy" to "make the bait live" again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    I remember someone saying last time that Gong Zhichao doesn't seem to move at all until the shuttle goes past the net, I think I may have adopted to that style.

    This is how I think in a game situation:
    Instead of anticipating an opponent's reply, I try to read and learn what their most probable reply would be and figure out what the best reply would be against him, ofcourse I don't neglect that there is a probability that he'd play a different shot and so I don't rush his shot if he hasn't done it.
    .
    That was me who wrote about Gong Zhi Chao's movement. I put it in slow motion and it was quite a revelation to examine her movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    But now, what I do is focus on the shuttle and not move until it moves instead of looking at my opponent's body movement to see what shot will be played. This is probably the more solid game style, the type that is good against deceivers, but the trade off is that you need to be extra hard working on your speed and endurance.
    Heh, that's a good gameplan.

    Ironically, when I play beginners, they're the ones who are the least likely to fall for deception, because they're not thinking about where the bird is going or their positioning... so all they do is just that-- run when they see it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    That was me who wrote about Gong Zhi Chao's movement. I put it in slow motion and it was quite a revelation to examine her movement.
    Seasons Greetings Cheung. Interestingly enough I did the same to study her movement. Her feet are extremelly fast and the fluidity of her changing directions using her footwork is simply amazing.

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    I noticed that good players read your shots. When they read it, they get to the bird and hit it faster than u can react. So say you drop to a corner and your opponent reads it, he can do a quick lift to the other corner before you can react. This is why your footwork breaks down, because you dont get the reaction time you need to do perfect footwork so you basically hustle your way as fast as you can to the bird and give him another obvious shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    That was me who wrote about Gong Zhi Chao's movement. I put it in slow motion and it was quite a revelation to examine her movement.
    Hi Cheung, I really want to see the Gong Zhi Chao slow motion footwork. Where can I find it?

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    ermmmm honestly in my opinion your footwork should never break down or change....if your playing someone 100 times better than you or the same level as you, your movement should be consistant in its style and technique. All that needs to change is the pace of how you move.

    If you watch Lin Dan play an unknown qualifier then vs someone as fast as Lee Chong Wei, his movement is exactly the same. Exact same steps, exact same movements. The only difference is he is forced to do these footwork movements faster when he plays the higher calibre player.

    Thats 1 thing that less advanced players really need to get in their heads. When your coach says speed up the gameplay it doesnt mean start running around! haha it just means quicker movements etc etc.

    Hope that made sense. You really should not be running around in anyway in badminton.

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    it was an obvious that you really shouldn't be running around in the court.
    And of course the style and technique can't be change, because you've been practicing with that style and technique, all suddenly you change it in a game, that wouldn't be you anymore.
    Playing with a stronger players basically he just give you less time to come to the bird. Because his PLACEMENT shots are accurate. Accurate means where he wants to hit it, and how fast he wants the bird to get to the spot that you can't intercept in the middle of the flightpath. If he doesn't have a good placement which mean from the point he hit the bird to the spot can be intercept by you, then that just pretty much you have more time than he does. Reading opponent only help you conserve energy through out the game and kill the net shots if you're shots have slight error in it, (too high)

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    The only time footwork breaks down if you're playing at a pace which is too fast for you, or if you are with a very deceptive player and you are unable to react well, then your feet get tangled,or you cannot recover from previous movements to go on to the next.

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