How to play doubles with a weaker partner?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ^Tayo^, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. ^Tayo^

    ^Tayo^ Regular Member

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    Hey Guys,

    I have a weak partner for doubles in our tournament. When he makes too many mistakes in a row, psychologically, I make mistakes too. Obviously the pattern of our losing games are from unforced errors. The only good things he has are backhand/forehand clears and smashes. He has no footwork (can't really run), no netshot, no drops. I'm an all-around-player with average 80% consistency on my shots. What should I do?
     
  2. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Get another partner. I think you knew that already ;)

    But wait - you say he has good backhand clears and smashes, but no netshots or dropshots? That's rather unusual. Are you giving an accurate picture? We can only give advice based on what you tell us.
     
  3. ^Tayo^

    ^Tayo^ Regular Member

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    Sup Gollum,

    The accurate picture is that he's a bit fat and can't really run at the net. So our basic strategy is I have to run at the net when there's a drop and setup for him a smash.

    Tayo
     
  4. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Okay, so he's quite skilled, but slow (due to being fat/unfit). Therefore he can't move forward quickly enough to play net shots. Is that right?

    If you are a much better player than he is, then you should seek another partner of your standard. If you are both of a similar level, but with different strengths and weaknesses, then you may have to get used to it (until you improve enough to play with better partners).
     
  5. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Channel offense

    It sounds like you might need to cover a bit more than half of the court. At times, you might even be responsible for 3 corners of the court. If one of you clears the shuttle towards one of the back corners, it might work best if you set up diagonally crosscourt from the clear so that you are a bit closer to the net than your partner. He would take straight ahead smash returns, drives or clears. You would handle all the drops as well as any smashes, clear or drives that are crosscourt.

    Try not to clear or drive too much. I would have you hit more drops & mid-court pushes to get your opponents to lift the bird to you or your partner.

    If you find that your opponents are hitting most of their shots toward your partner, you might need to cheat over towards him to cut off some shots. This would also leave a slight opening on you part of the court.. hopefully, this will encourage your opponents to hit more shuttles to your part of the court. you don't want to leave too much of an opening... just enuff to tempt them to hit where you want.

    Try a channel offense when your partner is in the back smashing the shuttle. He should hit his smashes either straight ahead (not toward the ally tho') or right between the opponents if they are in a side-side defense. If he choses to hit straight ahead & attack one of the opponents, you might move over to the same side of the court (rather than the opposite side from your partner). You might want to move back a little toward the center of the court to pick off weak replies. (The channel offense means that you and your partner are on the same side of the court).

    However, if your opponents are very good a whipping (or dropping) smash returns crosscourt to the open area, the channel offense may not work. Give it a try & see if your opponents can deal with it. It usually works best if you can figure out which one of your opponents has a tougher time with smash returns. If both opponents appear to be about the same in this regard, just chose one & pick on him. Sometimes this may shake the confidence of that player since it looks like your team considers him to be the weaker player (whether it is true or not!).
     
  6. Simp84

    Simp84 Regular Member

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    That is very discouraging.. maybe they are friends...
    So we shouldn't look down on people just like that
    So often badminton players have this sort of mentality... its a real put off
     
  7. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    It's not a case of looking down on someone; it's recognising an obvious discrepancy of ability. If you only ever play with your friends, you won't get much better. You can still enjoy playing with them, but you ALSO need to play regularly with players of a similar standard.
     
  8. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I don't think this is the case. In tournament, everyone get a shot for the championship, it's the place to prove how well your previous progress is, but not meant to be "Mr. good guy" or "Mr. popular". With the goal set, the best and most accurate way for the "test", is to find a partner with similar lvl in skill and understand each other's game, but not like a huge gap in between.

    If 2 players are friends, it's always ok to let the better one spend some extra time to help the lower one in training sessions, such as drills. However, such progress require time, which certainly does not fit for tournament. If force such 2 to play together in a tourny, say drag the beginner to A flight, or put the local champ into D flight, it won't be fun or make any sense for both sides.

    Say, if i am a newbie, and my friend is a local champ. With the fact he covers 99% of the floor, and take 98% of the shot, we won in a low lvl tourny. Does that really mean, I am that good, even on the same standard as he is? Of course not. To make things worse, if I just blinded by the shiny trophy, I might just stop progressing, and think I am already "on the top of the world".

    Therefore, participate in tourny and helping buddy buddy in regular training session are totally different.
     
  9. Cengsc

    Cengsc Regular Member

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    Re

    Hi,

    i think u can paly at the front while he play at the back.
    Use his strength which is his smash and clear, while u r all-round,
    the front will be a better place for u.
    As u can net and drop better than him, this will make a better team.

    Ceng
     
  10. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    Partnering with a weaker player could be fun and it could be really bad. It depends on the situation. If your opponents are not too good, you won't be challenged. If they're really good and competitive, you won't even get to touch the shuttle unless you're serving or being served (happens in competitive tournaments all the time). I would avoid it if I could unless it's really casual recreational. The best way to compete and learn better in doubles is still to have a long term partnership with a regular player in tournaments, that way you both could grow together as a team.

    If you're entering a tourney with a weaker partner, just treat it as a fun and learning experience. Don't expect too much and you won't get disappointed:D.
     
  11. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Diagonal Defence & Attacking formations

    Jake Downey has made 2 of his books available online (pdf format) free of charge. One of these is Winning Badminton Doubles. In Chapter 4 he discusses, in-depth, various doubles formations:

    http://www.badmintonbooks.com/books/Chapter%204A.pdf

    On page 73 he describes a Diagonal Defence. (This is the defensive position that I was talking about in the begining of my post above).

    In Figs. 74 & 75 on this page he show the defensive players in this formation. Also notice the attacking formation in these same figs. This is not quite the Channel Offence that I referred to but it may be a more suitable formation for you & your doubles partner when attacking. Jake shows various attacking formations starting on page 58. He shows a pure Channel Attack as well as the Wedge Offense on page 61. As I mentioned in the other post, this channel offense may or may not work for you... it is a bit extreme, but it might be worth trying. The formation on page 73 or some of the other formations discussed on pages 58-64 may suit you better.

    For other chapters in Jake Downey's Winning Badminton Doubles:
    http://www.badmintonbooks.com/chapters.cfm?bookid=22

    You might also want to check out the Lee Jae Bok video, Doubles Attacking Techniques, at www.IBBS.tv

    In this excellent vid, he demonstrates the aggressive attacking formation that is shown on page 73 in the Jake downey book.
     
  12. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

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    obviously if you play a tournament you want to win....

    but i think playing with a weaker partner makes you a better player doubles yourself in the long run.... even tho it can be hella frustrating at times :eek:
     
  13. ^Tayo^

    ^Tayo^ Regular Member

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    Thank you for your advices guys,

    Now another factor I noticed in our matches is my partner's inconsistency because you guys probably realized that he's a powerplayer and power is not a guarantee winner in a game. In case of many mistakes in a row, we end up losing our turn to serve. Since my partner can smash and 60-70% of his smashes can be returned in a tournament we have a hard time to kill the bird and score. Thus our games tend to be very long and more tiring. What would be the key strategy to shorten the rallies to reduce time when we get back the serve.

    Tayo
     
  14. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    You are absolutely correct... power is no guarantee! How good is your partner at placing his smashes? Can he place it between the defending pair to create uncertainty as to which will will take it? This would be a safer ploy than trying to hit smashes into the alleys. It may also elicit some weak replies or no replies at asll if your opponents hesitate cuz they are uncertain.

    Note that some defenders prefer their backhand for smash defence. If this is the case, then it might be best to smash at their body... specifically, on the racket arm side of the body. Try to jam them. Or it might be useful to smash a little bit over more to the (same) side of the body.

    If they have a preference for a forehand defence then smash to the other side of the body. Do your opponents hold their racket low for smash defence? If so, smash at the upper part of the body. If they don't appear to favor one side or the other, try to notice which smash placements seem to give them the greatest problems. Be sure to inform your partner, if you notice any such weaknesses or tendencies.

    Does your parter hit a fair percentage of smashes into the net? If this is the case, then it might be better for him to try hit smashes at 70-80% of his normal smash speed. In trying to hit a 75% smash, he may relax enuff so that his smashes end up actually being faster & more accurate. If he hits a fair # of smashes out of bounds, then he should not smash for the perimeter at all. Hit at the opponents or right between them.

    Most important... are you backing off the net somewhat toward the center of the court when your partner is smashing? This should enable you to pick off weak replies to give you a greater advantage; you might even hit some possible winners to end the rally sooner.

    If your opponents are deep in their court while defending against your partner's smash, you might be able to hit down steeply in front of them when you pick of a weak reply; you may even get away with dropping in their forecourt. If they are defending in the midcourt area, then you might do well to try to jam them when you pick off a weak reply... going for their upper body (even the face) may be effective.

    Be sure to check out the Jake Downey diagrams (& text) online for a better idea of court positions. Lee Jae Bok has quite a few very good vids online for doubles strategies as well.
     
  15. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    Not likely if you're in a competitive tournament, cuz your opponents will only hit to the weakest link. Your partner might learn to play better, but you won't learn much from the experience.

     
  16. B3nny H4nn4

    B3nny H4nn4 Regular Member

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    ask tony gunawan...lol...
     
  17. Chrispywu

    Chrispywu Regular Member

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    lol whats that supposed to mean? his partner was weak? heh
    when i play with my coach.. im usually the weaker player.. sometimes we play somesort of mixed style where im up front more often

    the opponents usually pick on the "weaker" player.. so just be sure to cover him/her more often
     
  18. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    But that's exactly the problem with an unbalanced partnership: the stronger player will be forced to cover for the weaker player. If you find yourself covering for your partner a lot, then you need to get a better partner. You'll learn bad habits from this partnership: in doubles, you need to trust your partner to manage his area of the court. If you can't trust your partner's skill, then you will "shadow" him, and end up playing like a singles player. That's not good for your doubles development.
     
  19. ^Tayo^

    ^Tayo^ Regular Member

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    Gollum,

    Then in your case, you're gonna make your partner play mixed doubles style. Again, my partner is a good player but a bit chubby and tall. Unfortunately his size is too huge to become my shadow. :) It's funny cause whenever he serves, I can't see the shuttle. In many ways, you guys are right, I should change my partner if I want to move up to Division A because I'm more consistant than he is.

    Cheers
     

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