Coaching the smash - new v old

Discussion in 'Coaching Forum' started by Aleik, Jan 23, 2005.

  1. Aleik

    Aleik Regular Member

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    I was taught, on my coaching course, that the new way to coach a smash is with your chest more square-on to the net, but with feet still doing the same as for a "side-on" smash. More power comes from the abdomen, and it is a particularly useful method in tight cicumstances, as one can reduce the number of steps and therefore the time it takes to complete the action without affecting the body position.

    However, a very experienced county veteran has reassured me, in his typically modest and unforceful way, that the side-on body position remains the most effective when there is enough time for one to use it in the given situation.

    He acknowledged that higher standards of doubles do require this method as there is little time to respond in most cases, but there does seem to be a greater argument for using the whole body to generate power in the smash, and one should strive to prepare as quickly as possible for the "side-on" smash instead of rely on the more simple "square-on" method to cut down the amount of time needed to perform the action.

    With full respect for every coach's opinion, and as this new method is now part of the coaching course, I'm bothered about how the smash should be coached to beginners. Does this play on your mind as well?

    Aleik.
     
  2. OTFK

    OTFK Regular Member

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    I have the same delimma as you do. Most of the players here play doubles (due to court limitation). I myself have got used to the square on smash, clear or drop.
    However, I believe the side on preparation is a better method. As a friend have taped my game, I noticed I could read my upper body movment and "predict" what shot I was about to hit. I am sure my opponent can pick this up too.
    After talking to a few coaches, the side on preparation is easier to "hide" your shot. Therefore, I think the side on should be the one to teach all players and they can develop the square on technique later.
    Plus, I believe the side on stroke is easier for younger players to generate the power that they need to hit from baseline to baseline.
     
  3. Benasp

    Benasp Regular Member

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    my personal opinion is that the square smash is more accurate in precision and in placement ( cause you see the opponent side more longer) and very much powerful so i won't teach the old school method anymore
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    There is a book by John McEnroe (yes, the tennis player).
    He states, that by having a 'closed' serving stance i.e. facing more sideways during the preparation phase, it was more difficult for the opponent to read the shot.

    There may be the same analogy here.

    My feeling is here to teach beginners the side on preparation, and turn the body when doing the smash. It's the same action for drops and clears and helps disguise. You also have to turn the body to move around the court effectively...and we shouldn't forget, if you cannot move properly, hitting the intended shot will be so much more difficult.

    Ask a moderately skilled person to do an overhead clear when square-on....I'm sure there will be very few people who could hit the shuttle to the back of the opponent's court.

    If the beginner turns into a very skilled athelete, I'm pretty sure they could be square-on and do a good smash without needing too much coaching.
     
  5. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    Each style of stroke has its own special feature but for all beginners, it is best u learn the 'text book' form first as your ground base. After that, you can expand into other forms/styles at your own pace. Some pros has their own unique form that only work for them.

    For example, i know susi susanti like to prep her clears using this form, unique to her only. She is receiving a high serve, not under pressure. Her chest practically almost facing opposite to the net. Her racket foot is closer to the net than her non-racket foot. That is her unique base form.

    If someone see susi as his or her favorite player and try to learn clearing by copying susi form, he/she would have a long hard road ahead.
     

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    #5 cooler, Mar 4, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2005
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    btw, the player in the pic is Ye Zhaoying, who tend to "overturn" on her preparation. even more so than Susi.
     
  7. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    thx for the correction. I should had known since i got that pic from the yezhaoying thread by seawell. :eek: My mix up is due to that i only had watch susi played before but not ye zhao ying. I guess there are more than 1 player that use that form.
     
  8. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    but isn't Aleik saying that the "text book" has changed.
    are you advocating using the old book or the new book, or whatever is the latest book in your country?

    P.S.
    Lee Jae Bok appears to be teaching the smash with upper body rotation
    (I've only seen the preview video of his smash coaching though)
     
  9. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    I am also in the opinion that should teach a beginner to rotate the upper body when teaching the smash. I think I am from the 'old school', so still prefer the clear, drop and smash share the same movements. It helps to disguise the shot and make it harder for the the opponent to read your shots.

    When the player is comfortable with the smash, he can adapt the smashing motions according to the game situations.
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It's certainly a new thinking - wether it is more effective is another matter.

    It may be more effective for the reasons that Aleik has stated - but this might only be applicable to the experienced player.

    Sure, I agree it looks to be useful in 'tight' circumstances. How about when time is not so pressured? Is it so useful then? Are beginners able to use abdominal strength to generate harder smashes?

    There must be some rationale behind the change of teaching - would be nice to the basis of the changes rather than trying to teach without insight.
     
  11. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Actually I am still trying to visualize this move. I am thinking of the attacking move used more often in doubles on flatter returns - similar to the third stroke when the receiver return is fast and not too high. :confused:
     
  12. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    yes, by text book form i mean techniques that are widely adopted, proven, and really found in badminton text book as the base form. Just becoz 1 or more coach teaches something different doesn't make their technique defined as text book (of course unless it's a profound improvement)

    As many here have said, keeping the same form for all your strokes has its big advantages. When u face square on the net for smashing, yes u would require less prep time but u lost some power and opponent can read your smash direction better. It is common to see untrain beginners clearing, smashing and dropping with chest facing the net. If the untrain beginners can do that on their own, I hope we don't say they have advanced form.
     
  13. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    and when a national body instructs all it's coaches to coach a particular method?
     
  14. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    If you compare any textbooks of the last twenty years to the top players at that time I'm guessing the textbooks would all be "outdated"

    If you wait for a development to hit the national governing body coaching course you will similarly by a few years behind.

    Go to the all England, watch how the top players are executing shots, what tactics they use , how they move, endeavour to teach that.

    I was told that when LJB visited MK last year he coached several of our younger international mens singles players briefly and immediately tried to change their smash action since they had "no smash"
     
  15. coops241180

    coops241180 Regular Member

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    Hi all, i've coached 8-18 year olds with a wide range of talent for the last 5/6 years.

    I'm of the opinion that trying to coach a specific technique won't get you very far. There are guidelines, which are understood to a greater or lesser degree by the individual player.

    as the player develops it's the coaches responsibility to watch the player during practice and competition and identify the shortcomings. Each player will either develop their own individual stroke - if this works for them - and gets them to the level they want to be at. If they want to improve then they will ask you what is wrong with their technique. at this level it is better to show them pro players whose action they can copy. videos from the likes of LJB and IBA are invaluable to coaches since these should be 'textbook' examples of the action.

    Neil
     
  16. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    neil nicholls - national body assumed that all coaches they are instructing already have the text book skill sets

    dlp - top players are not beginners. top players 'should' already possess all the basic 'text book' skills to begin with
    - young international MS are not beginners (B,C, D players). LJB is only spicing up what those international players have already.

    If need be, any advance (i mean real ones)players can clear & smash without much body movement, especially men players. Of course there are advantage of smashing square on too. It's good to learn as many form if one want to. Of course when an international coach come into a country without or lost the international competitive edge, domestic players of course welcome all the tweaking they get can.

    I see that aleik, neil nicholls and dlp all mentioned the same thing and they are all from the UK. It's good to see UK is getting some spicing up from international coach(s)

    I know so many beginners that are so screw up now because they didn't start from 'grade 1'
     
    #16 cooler, Mar 5, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  17. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    Yes, but I think you might find that LJB would change the "basics" of the international players, I'm not talking fine tuning here. I mean grip, body position on smash etc, he might be saying the same things to international u23 as to u14 county juniors or even beginners, I think he would say the same fundamentals apply, but he might have a very different idea of those fundamentals to many english coaches.

    I've always taken the view that I take the bits I like from a range of top coaches, players, and my idea of what is "right" is constantly evolving. As soon as you think that one source or person is the answer you are limiting yourself and will soon be out of date.
     

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