i know this sound like a broken record but i still have not found a politically correct way to deal with player who modified a brand new nylon shuttle. i was just talking to someone recently, he tolls me his new shuttle didn't even last one game (15 points) because some idiot modify his new shuttle to a hult. they don't just change the speed of the new nylon, those idiot cause damage to the shuttle and sometime it make the shuttle wobble. so i'm not the only one who complaining about this, all my peers (my skill level) share my view. this is the facts: -all brand new mavis 300 shuttle have very consistence speed and flight pattern. -some find the (green band) mavis 300 to be too fast, but there're also player who find the mavis 300 to be too slow. (too different view but same model) -modify shuttle does not last as long compare to a non-modify shuttle -modify shuttle usually lose the smooth flight pattern. this is my current solutions, and is not very nice. -snub the players who damage (modified) my new shuttle before. -stop supplying new nylon shuttle or supply used and damaged shuttlecock only. -if the situation force me to bring out a new shuttle, i will say,"do not f...... modify my shuttle into any shape or form" as you can see, it not a good way to deal with people who i hang out with a lot, do you guys/gals have a better solution? i also plan to hand out memo to the players where i play regarding my concern. anyone out there who share my view, and can write a good memo, please help me write a non offensive memo...short and sweet and gets the point across.
to simulate feather (or close to it) flight profile, the proper way to check for correct speed of nylon shuttles is still by the underhand clearing stroke test. I'm not for nor against flaring the plastic skirt of the nylon shuttle, the owner of the shuttle should have the final say. However, playing the right speed of any type of shuttle is important, or else one would be totally screwed in real tournament and using feathers. In tournaments, correct shuttle speed is paramount when talking about shuttle.
Yes, I can see your frustration. However, in the case of right and wrong, you will hurt someone's feeling (even if that is not your intention), does not matter how you spill it to the intended party; diplomacy will only soften the impact. Personally, I'm not much of a diplomat either. Still learning this intricate art. However, I'll hazard to throw an idea to get it rolling: You can prepare two types of shuttles - one used one and the other new one. When you bring the new shuttle on to play and one of the player insists on changing your precious new shuttle 's speed. You have two options (perhaps more?): 1. Let that player know that you don't appreciate him* changing the speed. If he still insists on changing it, you might let him know that he can supply a shuttle and take your new shuttle away. 2. Use your used shuttle. Cheers. * I'm not gender specific here. Him/he means "any player". Being non political correct here.
Tell them there are rules governing the use of shuttles and it is not allowed to tamper with them. If they take no notice the give up on them and find another group or club to play with who have a bit of respect! Yo.
At the start of any match, pull out your tube of shuttles, state that they are in original shape and condition, consistent as all other Mavis 300 shuttles, and that no one should be modifying or altering them. State that the most fair way to play is for everyone to use shuttles that fly the same way and that you don't want anyone messing with your shuttles. If you do it beforehand, no one's feelings should be too badly hurt. Alternatively, have the league organizer put up a sign that says that league shuttles should not be modified.
Other options? 1) ask the shuttle wrecker to supply his game shuttles from his own pocket. 2) test all the shuttles beforehand in a standard manner. If the shuttle wrecker is unhappy with any of the shuttles, he'd better supply his own. (almost same thing as 1.)
what is the right speed? i really dislike that though or term.."simulate to feather like" with nylon. feather is heavier than nylon, therefore the momentum is different, and can not be simulate because the mass is not the same IMO. i play with feather and nylon, with my experience..you have to learn to play with both. don't simulate nylon to feather, just use feather, the price is not much different. note: above statement is not direct to you (cooler) but the bottom is. yes, it nice to play shuttle with proper or right speed but what is the right speed??i believe a new shuttle provide the right speed, player A believe spreading the skirt of the nylon with the elbow/forehead provide the right speed, player B believe squeezing the new nylon will provide the right speed. my point is the 'right speed' is a relative base on individual preference, therefore people should ask other before modifying the shuttle, especially if is a NEW shuttle. i play with player who consistent smash out, looks at me and say the shuttle is too fast. i say to myself "no you idiot, you smash out because you lack the proper angle and technique, give me a small rock to smash with and i will not smash out" i guess what boils me is player CONSISTENT modify the skirt to slow down the shuttle during game so they don't hit it out or have better chance to defend the smash......a game have not pass, and the new shuttle is badly damage, what a waste of money. you provide the new shuttle, and you don't even have time to enjoy it and that's what pisses me off. regarding..attack on america. i didn't even go to work on tuesday, watch 14 hours of news on abc, nbc, cbs, etc. if the victim and victim family wants revenge, i hope they gets what they want. an eye for an eye.
they don't insists some of them don't insists, they just do it because they feel their peference speed is the proper speed. and they think they are doing other a favor when they modify the shuttle because in their mind, they're doing the right thing.
yeah if they supply the shuttle, i don't really mind how they modifie it, in fact i don't mind if they modifie my used shuttle but when they modifie my new shuttle that's what ticks me off. to me, it is like watching someone wrecking my new toy that i pay for.
some facts 4 u - for calgary altitude, i use victor tourney 74 which weight in at 4.55 g. Even this is too fast as all feather players i played with this victor shuttles and pros seen in calgary tournament, still fold the feather tips to slow the shuttle down. Meanwhile, the SLOW (green) yonex mavis 300 weight in 4.85 g. So u r incorrect in this regard. Also, if 4.55g is still a bit heavy for calgary, what make a 4.85 g nylon shuttle a right speed right out of the tube? - yonex makes 3 speed for mavis 300, while they make 7 speeds for feather shuttles of each particular grade (AS-50 down to AS-10, well almost for all the grade). As the result, most nylon players fine tune by 'adjusting' nylon shuttles. - The 'right speed' is NOT based on individual preference. Go read section 3 of the IBF laws of badminton which show you how to determine the right speed by the book. - at a same smash angle, a small rock WILL LIKELY go out of bound than a fastest speed rating shuttle Like i said b4, i respect other people shuttles. I can play both unaltered and alterned shuttles. However, good players don't mind use anything if both side are using it too. The control is all in my hand, not in the racket, string nor the shuttle. On your comment about 'attack on america', an eye for an eye, you are also wrong here too. The Israelites and palestinian have been going eye for an eye at each other since the time of Moses ( in case u dont know, it is before christ). Do we really want to follow that strategy even if we know the outcome after about 2000+ years of hard reality history. In summary, i didn't find any correct statement from your last post. However, please dont take this personally as i was only trying to make some factual statements. You may correct me if u want to but please do so with something more concrete than b4.
some respond to u - for calgary altitude, i use victor tourney 74 which weight in at 4.55 g. Even this is too fast as all feather players i played with this victor shuttles and pros seen in calgary tournament, still fold the feather tips to slow the shuttle down. Meanwhile, the SLOW (green) yonex mavis 300 weight in 4.85 g. So u r incorrect in this regard. Also, if 4.55g is still a bit heavy for calgary, what make a 4.85 g nylon shuttle a right speed right out of the tube? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - i don't have the fact about actually weight, but from my personal experience and people i talk to, feel the feather generally heavier than mavis 300. - yonex makes 3 speed for mavis 300, while they make 7 speeds for feather shuttles of each particular grade (AS-50 down to AS-10, well almost for all the grade). As the result, most nylon players fine tune by 'adjusting' nylon shuttles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what you call 'fine tuning', is what i call 'damaging'. if all majority players agreed that the shuttle is too fast or too slow, than i have no problem people adjusting the skirt. - The 'right speed' is NOT based on individual preference. Go read section 3 of the IBF laws of badminton which show you how to determine the right speed by the book. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- no i still stand my point 'proper speed is individual preference'. i know how the test is conduct to test the speed of the shuttle. yes that test is valid if done correctly but that require skill and experience. i'm not saying you, but people who simply blast a shuttle with underhand from the base line is not a valid test. give me 3 different speed nylon shuttle, and i can validate all shuttle have the correct speed with the underhand baseline test....like you said, the control is in the hand. - at a same smash angle, a small rock WILL LIKELY go out of bound than a fastest speed rating shuttle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yes.. at a same smash angle a pebble will likely to go out, but i'm not talking about the 'same angle'. if you have the proper angle and technique, the shuttle should not go out, it doesn't matter if the shuttle is fast or slow. Like i said b4, i respect other people shuttles. I can play both unaltered and alterned shuttles. However, good players don't mind use anything if both side are using it too. The control is all in my hand, not in the racket, string nor the shuttle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ i agreed with you here but i can't say i can play with both unaltered and altered with equally ability. i definitely can player better with unaltered shuttles. my complain is not really about the proper speed, but the damage affect of adjusting a new mavis 300. the place you and i play... have you ever see them test a shuttle before altering? not a single test, they altered as they see fit...personal preference....that's my point. On your comment about 'attack on america', an eye for an eye, you are also wrong here too. The Israelites and palestinian have been going eye for an eye at each other since the time of Moses ( in case u dont know, it is before christ). Do we really want to follow that strategy even if we know the outcome after about 2000+ years of hard reality history. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- an eye for an eye..yes that is wrong, morally wrong but it is justify. cbs did a poll, over 75% american want military action. if that is not the solution, than what is the proper solution to deal with people who only use violence to meet their agenda. In summary, i didn't find any correct statement from your last post. However, please dont take this personally as i was only trying to make some factual statements. You may correct me if u want to but please do so with something more concrete than b4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- if you find statement that is incorrect or you disagree in my post, please let me know so i can respond.don't worry i don't take it personally, it is only a forum to disguss and to learn from it. now i'm going to waste my time to search information on the weight of different feather shuttle compare to mavis 300 to disprove or prove that in general feather shuttle is heavier. my boss is going to be piss off that i'm doing this during work hour.. and yes i also know that's is wrong too.
Re: they don't insists Hmm, why do I get the sense that it is due to your big heartedness that you provide new shuttles so that everyone can enjoy the game? However, not all respect and appreciate your kindness. What I'm saying then, whoever just modify other people's property without consent was not being brought up properly. Perhaps you need to re-assess your position here then: From experience, surely you know who they are, and perhaps you can use your used one and hopefully, in the off chance, that they will provide a new one. This is assuming that you really, really want to play with them and providing a new shuttle is detrimental since you know that they will modify it. Now, for a person you've no experience playing, you might want to "test the water". Another solution: since you mentioned that you played with the crowd that you hang around, I assume that they are your "friends"? If so, perhaps, you can also ask them to pitch in to get tubes of shuttles, especially with those who modify your shuttles? Other solution: You might want to speak with the badminton coordinator in the place you play and share your concern. Perhaps the place can provide the shuttles as a solution? Ah, the best solution is still education... Cheers.
thank for your view. thanks for your insight. i don't think i can make them see my point of view, so i will likely carry a new tube and a used tube where ever the badminton session may be. if player ask me if i have a new shuttle, than i will only bring it out only if they agree not to modify it. i just want people who play nylon (mavis 300) in calgary to know that i'm not the only one with this problem and concern, majority of my fellow peers (people i play with mostly) agreed that modification of a new mavis 300 cause damage to the shuttle. as you may or may not know, yonex provide 3 speed for the model mavis 300, red band (fast), blue band (med), and green band (slow), as you can see, we (calgarian) already using the slowest one out of the three. if you still thinks the green band is slow compare to the proper speed, than yonex must been wrong but i doubt that very much. yonex like any good name brand company have test facility to test their product to have the highest standard compare to their competitor. from my experience, all new mavis 300 speed is very consistend with each other (not comparing with the right speed, whatever it may be), if you learn to play with one that is out of the tube without modification, than you will find all new mavis 300 is very consistend. this will be my last complain i will post about modifying a new nylon mavis 300. thank you for your time.
Re: some respond to u I agree with HG that Yonex's Mavis 300 are extremely consistent new, straight from the tube and need no modification. Except for a small handful of occasions, I have played almost exclusively with these shuttles over the past two years and they definitely fly better than the nylon shuttles from Pro-Kennex that I own and are perhaps slightly better than Carlton nylons. When discussing speed of shuttles, I think air resistance has as much of an effect as weight. I don't think that Yonex's feather shuttles are as consistent as their nylon ones. I was told by a U.S. badminton mail order retailer that the AS-30, in particular, is probably the fastest shuttle on the market. In the first tournament I played in last summer, AS-30's were used and I had a big problem adapting to speed, as I was consistently hitting my clears and smashes 1-2' out. If speed doesn't bother you Cooler, you are certainly a better player than me (well, probably most of the visitors to this forum are better than me).
Welcome I'm glad that you have found a potential solution to your predicament. Yes, any shuttle that is modify out of the tube will be less long-lasting than if it was not modified, be it feather or nylon, and I'm glad that you brought this up so that everyone who has faced a similar problem as yours will know that they are not alone. Personally, if it is a social play, I had played every conceivable shuttles speed. With proper technique I can dampen the speed or accelarate more as required. However, in a tournament or tournament preparation, indeed, I'm quite picky - with speed that is. Cheers.
FORZA Hey why don;t you play wiht forza featherd shuttles happy guy.I Played with kelvins and they don't seem too fast.And aren't feather shuttles supposed to be lighter then nylon??? Oh yea happy guy,forza or should i say Prizm sports feater shuttles are only 21.95 including tax a tube for 12.
Re: some respond to u i think u got me wrong, speed and consistency are 2 DIFFERENT things. I never said mavis 300 nylon are inconsistent. On the contrary, i play nylon because of its two top qualities: consistency and durability, qualities that are also the weakest for feather shuttles. However, speed of the the green or 'slow' mavis 300 is still to fast for calgary altitude. you had problem with the AS-30 because u got the wrong shuttle speed for the condition u r playing. It has nothing to do with the quality of the feather shuttle (ie, AS-50 will fly the same as AS-10 for the same speed rating, only the AS50 last longer and mabye less wobblely)
Re: thank for your view. happy guy, yonex didnt created the green (slow) nylon mavis 300 exclusively for calgarian. If they are the right speed right out of the tube, go ask any very good calgarian players which would they prefer, an unaltered or alterned (slowed) mavis 300.
bad english, misunderstanding. where did i say yonex create the green band exclusively for calgary? i'm saying we using the green band and that is the slowest shuttle you can get for that model. my english might not be good but i do understand consistency and proper speed is two different things, this much i could agree on. i never mean to say the new mavis 300 provide the right speed compare to the 'right speed' whatever that may be. i'm say it is the right speed for 'ME'...personal preference. try this for experience cooler, and i will do it with you. the next badminton session we (or you and someone) use a fast shuttle for warmup. warmup for 30 minutes or so until you get the right feel of the fast shuttle. after warmup is done, use a new mavis 300 without modification and i willing to bet you will feel it is too SLOW. why? personal preference. you can also reverse the experience, use a really slow shuttle for warmup. once warmup is done, pick up a new mavis 300 without modification and i willing to bet you will say it is too FAST. why? personal preference. that why i'm saying there is no good reference for the proper speed of the shuttle, so why not just play a new mavis 300 just the way it is and it also prelong the life of the shuttle. what about the test ibf suggest, you ask? yes, that test is a good to a point but it is not fallible. any test involve human factor can not be that accurate, especially test that require mostly by the strength of the human arm, skill, experience, angle, contact of the shuttle on the face of the racket, etc...can not be a good accurate test but it is a good guideline. let me sound like a broken record again to re tell my mini story when i was in provincial over 10 years ago (and yes i got my ass whip). i was watching the final of the men mike (michael?) vs dave rank respective 12 and 24 in alberta. back then they didn't use feather, they used nylon mavis 300. i can't recall what game this take place, one player started to hit the shuttle out frequently, and ask to slow down the shuttle but the other disagree because he is playing good and is happy the direction the game is going for him. so they have to settle the disagreetment with the speed shuttle test as ibf stated. without 3rd party intervention, they both use the same test but they both able to use the test to prove their respected point. one player prove the speed is correct but his opponet prove that the speed is too fast. same test, different result. why?personal preference...human factor. yes, i know i'm fighting a upward battle, there much more player who prefer to expand the skirts of the new mavis 300 with their elbow and forehead to their prefer speed, that is ok, just ask and make sure you get a RESPOND before modification. too many time a player said shuttle too fast, than immediately start modification before the owner have time to respond to it. that's ok, i don't care anymore, i know who the wrecker are, i will save my new mavis 300 to the players who appreciate the way it is.
