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Thread: Did Lin Dan give up the final?
03-14-2005, 04:15 PM #18
I was at Birmingham during the match and I felt that Chen Hong just out played lin dan. lin dan was picking everything of chens in the first set but chen changed his game slightly and extended the rallies with a lot of punch clears, dictating the pace and was just a class above lin dan. lin dan isn't ubeatable and I think you should give chen some respect for a classy performance.
Plus why try to get chen hong up the rankings when gade and jonassen are above him by about 3000 points.
Also Bao Chunlai is ranked above chen hong and has a narrower margin between himself and jonassen so why not fix bao verses chen so that bao can get the points.
All in all, I saw the match and thought that chen hong was definately the best man on court, he said he wanted to "prove his worth" to the coaches and he did.
03-14-2005, 05:07 PM #19
I was there for the whole week, and Lin Dan did not impress me as much as I thought he would with his play, he seemed to lack concentration in the 2nd set of all his matches, if you look at his 2nd set scores (4, lost, 11, lost, lost and lost).
Chen Hong played excellent the whole week, he really deserved all his wins. He was definately the inform player of the tournament, Lee Hyun Il was also good.
I really hope there is not a chinese conspiracy, even though I used to believe that there was, along the lines off, whoever wins the first set, wins the match. This was axed as soon as I saw all the Chinese 3 setters
03-14-2005, 05:14 PM #20
Originally Posted by Ben Beckman
Sad if there is a fix.
03-14-2005, 06:06 PM #21
I was not there, but at German Open and observed several all Chinese matches. My impression is without exemption that the players who deserved it won.
The outstanding example is the match Chen Hong vs. Chen Jin.
In addtion, Chen Hong and Lin Dan have already 10 tournaments in their ranking points. So the difference will be minimal, assumed that Lin Dan should have won the finals.
Last, but not least we all know Lin Dan's statement in 2003 when WC was held in NIA. Lin Dan said that he could be the real winner of WC 2003. In a finals match Lin Dan will never give up again as he is now accepted as the No. 1. That's sure. So let's stop discussing on this "conspiracy" theory.
03-14-2005, 09:51 PM #22
i, all feelings aside, don't feel that there was any prior planning to that final match.
i never noticed any major change/ difference in lin dan except perhaps in the last few points of the match when i couldn't imagine how lindan would be able to level up the score, he didn't seem to bother giving his best anymore.
as some of you point out, the only possible motive for a set-up was for ? .. ranking purposes. that doesn't make sense, you answered yourselves.
so is the mystery for real?
what did that article from sina.com say anyway? ken, you told us to think again..
03-15-2005, 02:32 AM #23
Of course I was surprised that Lin Dan should lose so convincely to Chen Hong in the second and third games. It did cross my mind whether Lin just simply gave the crown to his good friend and same Fujian native as perhaps a "wedding present", but on closer examination, it seems unlikely.
Remember Lin has beaten all the others, some excellent players as well, before the Final. Therefore, in my earlier post, I concluded that it must be the injuries he has sustained in the process, particularly during his SF rubber encounter with WCH, that has led to his downfall, especially when he has to meet a past AE Champion and compatriot who knows a great deal about his game. But someone attributed all these (the bandages, tapes on the knees)as bluff to camouflage their real intentions.
Now if Ken's report that Lin has admitted to being really tired after the German Open, then his loss to Chen should be no fluke nor fixed. I looked at my tape-recording of that match again last night and was simply marvelled by the fluidity and ease that Chen managed to annihilate Lin with fast and sharp clears and drops to all the four corners of the court, punctuated by 'body-hugging' net plays and his effective smash. Lin was made to scurry madly around to try to retrieve them and his mobility was actually relatively slower than before. Indeed Chen was in masterful control!
Is the match really fixed? If you think so, consider some of the following points that some posters have enumerated:
1. LYB would prefer Lin to win since Lin is his favourite trainee (so I thought it was reported).
2, Scoring additional points for Chen to ensure his participation in this year's World Championships seems to have little effect or impact. Maybe World Ranking for seeding purposes would, in the sense that a higher ranked player can avoid meeting the better players in the earlier rounds.
3. If Lin intended the AE crown as a wedding present to his good friend Chen, he could also give him a more personal gift with his AE winnings.
4. For prestige, WR and international tournament purposes, a professional player would always want to stay on top. I think Lin is no exception as the World no.1.
5. On a more personal basis, I'm sure Lin would want to win to prove how good he really is to his girlfriend Xie Xingfang, who became the best women singles player of the AE tournament. Chen and his fiancee, Gao Ling, were the golden couple instead.
So, I have to conclude that there was never any foul play. Chen won on merit and thoroughly deserves his AE crown!
03-15-2005, 03:22 AM #24
Originally Posted by twobeer
If LD didnt value about this year WC, LD would had gone for broke or at least go all out and try to wrap the match up in 2 games. Maybe the pain had gotten worst and LD may had chosen the less riskier option. The score of the 3rd game is quite indicative what choice had LD had chosen. Is this fixed? It's hard to say but i doubt LYB really told LD to fold the match for WC seeding reason.
Last edited by cooler; 03-15-2005 at 03:27 AM.
03-15-2005, 03:28 AM #25
Chen Hong has been up on that stage four times already. He has to win the championship title because if he lose it again, that would be his third defeat in what is considered as the world's most perstigious badminton tournament.
And to prepare Chen psychologically for the upcoming world championship and also in terms of seedings, he needs the ranking points more than Lin Dan whose first position isn't really threatened by the other players. Frankly speaking, I dare not believe anyone in the world currently can beat Lin Dan 15-2. Therefore, I believe the match was pre-fixed.
03-15-2005, 04:01 AM #26
Originally Posted by Fook90
I think we have seen in the past that no matter how good a player is, he can't win them all, unless he is superhuman. Remember, Lin had been stretched to the rubber twice in this AE. Chen himself was once a supreme singles player but he still succumbed. And if Lin is injured, he is all the more prone to defeats by even lower ranked players than Chen Hong.
Let's see whether Lin can rebound from this defeat and when, and whether his injuries are all made up to fool us.
03-15-2005, 04:11 AM #27
It's sad if it was pre-fixed, but if it's pre-fixed, why did't they fix a closer score? I would say at their level it would be easy-piecy to fool those amateur eyes like mine with a seamingly more heated competition.
So I tend to believe it was not pre-fixed - whatever.
Top players make mistakes too, and mistakes can be caused by anything - things we don't know.
Don't know whether anyone follows the board game 'Go' competitions, the un-beatable Korean Lee Chang-ho was beaten by Zhou He Yang, a Chinese top player in their first game, because Lee made a mistake in 'Endgame' or 'Shou guan - 收官', or 'Shuban' at which he is supposed to be the best in the world.
Last edited by 2love2live; 03-15-2005 at 04:15 AM.
03-15-2005, 05:51 AM #28
If Lin Dan was injured they would have simply pulled him out, with future events in mind.
If they can get Lin and Chen Hong to 1 & 2 rankings before the worlds they will be seeded in separate halfs which is preferable.
The sad thing is that because of past match fixing we can never really enjoy an all chinese match without the thought entering our heads,... am I being cheated?
03-15-2005, 10:29 AM #29
It is very simple IMO. I dont believe there was any match fixing.
Anybody who has seen chen play in WC 2003, OG2004, an other matches previousley will see he is a different player to what he was before.
Previousley he was very nervous, made many unforced errors in tight situations. His net play became poor. His defence was really bad (for a top player). He often played well in the first 1.5 sets, but then became overly reliant on his attacking smash and netplay. Shon seung mo in 2 cases knew exactly what to do. He onlyhad to do two things, move in for net kill, and move side to side for smash. At one point in OG 2004 QF he kill the shuttle from the net after CH 1st return.
Watch him this AE I think you can see all those weaknesses were corrected. His defence was a match for bao, Lin, and LCW. His nerve held, and there was very few unforced errors. He stuck to his game plan unerringly, even in sight if victory. He had variety of strokes, played more drops. LCW was especially caught out by this. almost everytime he was expecting smash when lifted, but he became off balance when a drop/clear came. he was frequently wrong fotted by CH serve being flicked, and his pushes off the net.
Lin had the speed to retrieve this play in the first set. But when he lost his quick speed, chen got his attacks back, and made no errors. Lin had nothing to give. He couldnt attack (CH good defence), he couldnt counter (CH consistent in control), he could not rally (couldnt be in control, no ideas to be in control himself.)
CH simply didnt give him anything to go at. He is a Superb athlete, with superb techniqu in footwork and strokes. If he (as seems so this tourney) has got over his mental stability, and defence. Then he is the unbeatable one. Lin has only his confidence+speed, who would bet could play at the top the longest? (hint: CHEN HONG)
Reading Andycmg post about why he beat BCL, the answer is the same, Bao was too quick in first, Chen kept to the plan, gave no chances, and he seems to win without doing anything different.
03-15-2005, 10:43 AM #30
Chen hong won because he played better than lindan, i watched the final , seriously chen hong really deserved to win it...Lindan is no superman, he can lose it too, he is nt unbeatable....to say lindan purposely lose to chen hong, or there is a team order, its v unfair to chen hong, we shldnt take away his credit......
03-15-2005, 11:20 AM #31
I just cannot believe the kind of mad hand-wringing to explain Lin Dan's defeat. 'He injured his leg'; 'he had strapping at his wais'. 'He was ordered to throw the match.' 'He threw it because there's no point aggravating his already injured back.' What flight of fantasy and nothing related to how Lin Dan and Chen Hong actually performed.
Even before the finals, LD had been playing 'indifferently' by his standards. I speculated that top players get off days and others are getting to know how to stop him. I also opined after the SF that Chen would not want to repeat the F loses to Hafiz and Gopi.
So here it is 1) He wasn't in top form 2) He under-estimates his opponents - does not respect them 3) His form deserted him suddendly after set 1. 4) He pannicked when 3) happened, 5) He did not play percentage when he needed it. 6) Chen was more determined to win.
I watched the match. How he lost: 1) He was digging out drop shots and many did not get over; 2) forehand smashes from his left back corner to CH's left forecourt went wide. 3) He lost his anticipation and could not get to some drop shots, smashes or feints or was there but too late. 4) He rushed shots which missed or lofted short for Cheng to kill. 5) The worse the score, the more he pannicked and the worse he played. 6) Chen played his solid game: moving him back forth, side to side, high and low; LD rushed around mostly missing or mishitting. 7) He was shaking his head incredulously at Chen's ability to outplay him, and frowned in surprise at his errors. This is not what you expect a faked loser to do. 8) Lin had few serves as Chen scored 5-10 points in one service in both sets 2 and 3.Noticed how quick those sets were?
There, do we have at least 30 points for C Hong to win legitimately without conspiracy theory or illness excuse? Y
Last edited by 02011953; 03-15-2005 at 11:31 AM.
03-15-2005, 12:09 PM #32
Originally Posted by 02011953
Yes, CHong does deserve the credit of beating LD, especially in such convincing manner but we also know that these 2 are top players and with LD losing by wide margin like 15-5 and 15-2 does raise some speculation.
Last edited by cooler; 03-15-2005 at 12:13 PM.
03-15-2005, 01:37 PM #33
I talked to a former chinese top player in my club and he said they had quit fixing the matches. He knows a lot of the players in the chinese national center and therefor statement should be true...
03-15-2005, 01:42 PM #34
No wonder there were so many 3 games matches between 2 Chinese pairs in AE and German Open which was rare in the past. Good for the sport.
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