Did Lin Dan give up the final?

**Morten** · 03-17-2005, 02:28 PM

Hmm I dont think Chen Hong has the best technique. I think he is a master in power and footwork but I would rate Gade and Taufik to be the best technical players around. Lin Dan's technic is also quite good and he is a master in offensive and defensive play. Without his technique he wouldnt be world nr 1

**other** · 03-17-2005, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Morten

Hmm I dont think Chen Hong has the best technique. I think he is a master in power and footwork but I would rate Gade and Taufik to be the best technical players around. Lin Dan's technic is also quite good and he is a master in offensive and defensive play. Without his technique he wouldnt be world nr 1

i don't know much about technique myself, but surely chen hong gets his power from good technique? Gade and taufik for sure have more variety and more of a "rallying" (compared to CH anyway) style, but is that down to technique, or just their best style which suits their physique?

intresting the 3 names mentioned in the same sentence(s) as best technique are all mentally a bit suspect (not all the time of course)

***jamesd20*** · 03-17-2005, 03:49 PM

There is another thread for the best technique discussion here:

http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20750

**chanbc** · 03-17-2005, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by dlp

Yes I think the result was set with the world champs seeding in mind. Clearly the higher the 2nd and 3rd chinese are the more "control" the team will have in deciding the outcome, we all remember Birmingham 2003 and the chinese tactics.

What about the WS? I havent seen the match but XIe didnt make the team for Athens yet beat Zhang in two??

This is why I tell people not to go on finals day, 3 all chinese finals is not good for the spectator, well the educated spectator anyway.....

I did not watch the MS final. I did watch MS Semifinal and WS Final. In my view, I do not agree both matches were fixed.

In WS final, to say that Zhang gave way for XXF is equally unfair to both. XXF was at rather high ranking prior to Athens. She was excluded from the Athens due to quota set and too many good WS player in China. The fact XXF had won 6 titles back to back after Athens imply that she had improved a lot when most of the top WS player compete in Athens and do not forget that Mia Audina (Athens WS Silver Medalist) lost to her in Semifinal in two sets too. Would anyone suggest that Mia Audina also gave way for XXF? I believe at age 30, Zhang would eager to add another major title to her collection since AE is the only one she fall short. Some people may be discounting the fact that Zhang was lack of practice after Athens due to celebration and her wedding. This can be seen in the preliminary round as well where Zhang was forced to play 3 sets by relatively lower rank player.

As for the MS final, I have expected the outcome after watching the semifinal match between Lin Dan and Wong CH. There are several occasions that Lin Dan did not chase for the shuttle cock and some signs that he did not want to aggravate his injury. That is why I expect Chen Hong to win in the final. Besides, would anyone suggest a match fixing in Athens that Lin Dan lost in first round?

In the competitive MS, to say that match fixing is done in order to secure a better seeding in the coming competition simply doesn’t make sense. Match fixing in order to get a better seeding only has an effect on average player like you and me. It is useless for a strong player like those in the top 20 in world ranking. No one has clear advantage against the other in the top 10(20).

**badplayer2004** · 03-18-2005, 04:31 AM

just watched the AE MS final...here's my opinion

in the first game,lin dan won easily and got over confident..and all the world's all right....

in the second game..chen hong tried several tricks and got lucky..pissing off the confident lin dan to play "what you can do i can do too" but was not as lucky...by the time lin dan realize whats happening chen hong's score is already too far away......too late

you can see chen hong increase his concentration and tricks and pissing off the young lin dan in the second game

on the 3rd game,the again over confident lin dan didnt play his usual good game but wants to play "let's trick each other" kind of game....and realizing that he....CAN'T pull it off......his over confidence and think too low opinion of chen hong did him in.....he played like a spoiled kid not a pro that he should have been...cool and controlled like what chen hong did....the whole game...CH didnt get pissed off at his mistakes...he just keep on his game plan....all the way.....

once again..over confident lin dan didnt take the game seriously till its too late...AGAIN.....

it was a match between a man and a boy....

**02011953** · 03-18-2005, 05:18 AM

To 2love2live
Easy. I found out early that Hongkong was going to go live on Saturday SF and Sunday F, so I just took a flight to Hongkong Friday night. Much cheaper + ringside view, than flying to Birmingham, and I could have a drink (I had several) and smoke a cigar and risk a heart attack. I was rushing to the computer to see what people were saying and rushing back to see whether someone had been slaughtered - basically I like the vicarious nature of live badminton or table tennis - especially badminston because the whole body is in action whereas in TT its mainly the arms and footwork. Kwun was absent for most of the Sunday night.
Mind you the play went to 2 am each night. I am not answering Q's on my condition on Monday at work.

To Mag
You said it when you first raised this Q. This is a red herring. When did you last see one? But we all had a 'go' at defending our positions.

To whoever provided the juicy bit about LYB's theatrics when ChenH waited for him to come and sit down. (Can't go back to check who it was otherwise I'll have to rewrite this masterpiece!!!)

That was a gem.LYB is a prima donna and thinks journalists are interested in him at the after-game press conferences. A mixed-up kid - especially when his blue-eyed boy LD flopped.

Y

**Neil Nicholls** · 03-18-2005, 10:14 AM

I have now seen the match so I will offer my opinion.

I think it was several factors.
Chen Hong looks to be playing better than he used to.
He no longer plays too many of his old "favourite shot" the reverse slice smash
He is better at the net

The body language of Lin Dan suggested to me that he was tired. Maybe he picked up a virus. That's what it looked like to me on the TV close-ups.
At the start of the 3rd, Lin Dan was briefly re-energised, but only for a few rallies.

Chen killed Lin at the net.

In last year's final Gade killed Lin at the net, but eventually it was Gade who ran out of steam and couldn't keep up with Lin.

This year Lin ran out of steam.

It didn't look fixed to me.

**badplayer2004** · 03-18-2005, 10:58 AM

yes....CH looked lean and mean while LD was puffy faced...bloated for a thin guy

**Schneider** · 03-18-2005, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Brave_Turtle

Are you saying CH doesnt deserve it?? You should consider that he went in the final for the 4th time and how he played trough out the whole tournament.

He also had one of the hardest draft Vs Bao Vs Shon Vs Lin.

Give him some respect for god sake! I just watched the 2nd and 3rd set and Chen Hong was just a better player than Lin. (Love his jump smash)

By the way WCH also beat Lin in the 2nd set however lost the third one (15-1). Why can it happen to Lin Dan?

CH deserve all the credit and I'm so happy that he won against someone like Lin Dan.

I never said he didn't deserve it cos he did, but i thiought it was a bit strange that Lin Dan did so well against him in the first set but then lost it in the other two. He was making alot of mistakes he didn't make before but Chen Hong did play well so WELL DONE CHEN HONG!!

**chinadoll** · 03-18-2005, 06:26 PM

i think Lin Dan is too tired... playing German & All England continuously....
the bandage / plaster (whatever that is call) is for muscle strain.... so it's normal if you all can't see any open wounds....
i don't think his bandage / plaster is fake.... i think his muscle really aches... that's why his speed becomes slower

**badplayer2004** · 03-18-2005, 07:51 PM

lean and mean vs. bloato

**MarkinJapan** · 03-18-2005, 10:02 PM

Over the last week i've talked to some players/coaches/umpires that have participated at the international level. None have in the last number of years (except the umpires), but none of them are suprised by the prospect of a fix. One quote was "the higher you go up, the more corupt things get"

I havn't watched the set, and all I know of the affair is from this thread, but sports at the elite level is a whole different game. Esspecially when you take a global power working to maintain the top spot.

but who knows so congrats chen hong!

**Morten** · 03-19-2005, 01:46 AM

I think its ridicolous to be speaking about Lin Dan giving away an All England title. Chen Hong was the better man this day and for Lin Dan fans.. try to accept that. Last year it was discussed that he gave away the first set against Peter Gade to tire him out and I think its a bit funny and at the same time ridicolous because why should he dare to do so in his first AE final and against a player who when it goes his way and has the right mental strengh plays formidable. Both finals where between good players. Last year Lin won and this year he lost. Isnt about time saying end of discussion???

**Anatolii** · 03-19-2005, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Morten

I think its ridicolous to be speaking about Lin Dan giving away an All England title. Chen Hong was the better man this day and for Lin Dan fans.. try to accept that. Last year it was discussed that he gave away the first set against Peter Gade to tire him out and I think its a bit funny and at the same time ridicolous because why should he dare to do so in his first AE final and against a player who when it goes his way and has the right mental strengh plays formidable. Both finals where between good players. Last year Lin won and this year he lost. Isnt about time saying end of discussion???

Hear!! Hear!!

**DaN_fAn** · 03-19-2005, 02:11 AM

have a rather far-fetched theory but neverthless a possibility.we all know that lin and chen are great friends.now ,in the WC only three players max, can represent china.lin dan of course will be one of them,so it would not matter to him if he were to lose or win in the finals.but the remaining 2 will go either to bao,xia or chen[along with the chinese juniors catching up too].maybe just to ensure that chen may be in the team for the WC lin actually lost the match on purpose[perhaps he did not even tell chen that he would lose intentionally].but then i would say reaching the finals would be a good enough achievement for chen,but who knows??

or simply lin was rather too over confident or did not gather enough motivation to win or was just too tired[a more cleaner theory]

**hcyong** · 03-19-2005, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by DaN_fAn

have a rather far-fetched theory but neverthless a possibility.we all know that lin and chen are great friends.now ,in the WC only three players max, can represent china.lin dan of course will be one of them,so it would not matter to him if he were to lose or win in the finals.but the remaining 2 will go either to bao,xia or chen[along with the chinese juniors catching up too].maybe just to ensure that chen may be in the team for the WC lin actually lost the match on purpose[perhaps he did not even tell chen that he would lose intentionally].but then i would say reaching the finals would be a good enough achievement for chen,but who knows??

or simply lin was rather too over confident or did not gather enough motivation to win or was just too tired[a more cleaner theory]

Wrong, maximum 4 players if all within top 8.

**MarkinJapan** · 03-19-2005, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Morten

I think its ridicolous to be speaking about Lin Dan giving away an All England title. Chen Hong was the better man this day and for Lin Dan fans.. try to accept that. Last year it was discussed that he gave away the first set against Peter Gade to tire him out and I think its a bit funny and at the same time ridicolous because why should he dare to do so in his first AE final and against a player who when it goes his way and has the right mental strengh plays formidable. Both finals where between good players. Last year Lin won and this year he lost. Isnt about time saying end of discussion???

I agree that the talk about last years and lin dan giving up a game on purpose was silly. But there is one major difference, this year it was an all china final. To think that the chinese coaches sit back all the time and say, "just go out and do you best guys" is silly. Not saying that's what happened here, but it's happened before. Lin dan doesn't play just for himself, he plays for China, and so does Chen Hong. If two chinese players reach a final, China has already won. So if Chen Hong can get a better draw for the WC, and as a result an easier path to the final, I don't think it's out of the question to see a fixed match. What would the goals be for the Chinese team right now be? A men's singles champion. How do you do that? Get as many players as far into the draw as you can.
Again, I'm not saying this is what happened, a million and one things could have happened. One of course being that Chen Hong simply played better. Or lin Dan had a stomach ache. Or who knows. But to completly rule out a fix is nieve. *whuwho, post 100

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