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  1. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentinas View Post
    As I can see from the graph the stress is almost the same for 3 point inside support system and 6 point outside system in case the supports are placed in "right" position on both systems.
    No the graph shows that the 6 point outside has a LOT more stress.

    I always found that the 6 point machines got in your way a lot more. More chance of string hooking on, harder to weave. I've gone from Stringway to Alpha Revo 4000 to Stringway again so I think I've wasted enough money to know what I'm talking about. That's personal preference.

    Fact is that while the outside supports help reduce your racquet getting wider, it doesn't do anything if it gets narrower. While the latter is more aesthetically pleasing than a circular racquet, doesn't mean it's any better.

    At the very least, I would change the 6 and 12 o'clock to a hold down mounting. That will protect the racquet from either deformation. Only then will you have reasonable protection from your mounting system. All you did right now is just make it faster to mount. Not increase the safety for the racquet.

  2. #240
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    Yes I agree, I think we have a great product to work with. It just needs some tweaking to be made more badminton friendly
    Perhaps we have to open a new threat called something like “developing the perfect badminton machine” so that also people who do not trigger on the “laserfibre” brand will join.
    Could be an interesting discussion.

    As shown by the machine modification of distanc3 it is difficult to understand the mechanics during string and the effect on the racquet.
    It is a compliment to the racquet manufacturer that the racquet do not crack anymore.

    About the sliding:
    I would like to introduce an item that is very often discussed in tennis stringing while badminton stringers tend to neglect it:
    There are 2 effects when the racquets moves away from the inside supports:
    - The racquet is getting longer than it was so extra stress is introduced into the racquet.
    - The pressure on the supports is is not there anymore so the shape of the racquet does not keep it in place anymore, causing the sliding.

    My advise is to string the crosses 1 to 1,5 kg lower on a racquet of which you know that it gets longer.
    For the stress during playing it is better to string the crosses a little too low then too high anyway.

    One of the intensions of our Tension Advisor system for Tennis is to get the right relation between the tensions for mains and crosses to obtain the minimum stress in the racquet.

    We can see if our calculations can be used for badminton also.


  3. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringtechno View Post
    [FONT=Verdana]
    My advise is to string the crosses 1 to 1,5 kg lower on a racquet of which you know that it gets longer.
    For the stress during playing it is better to string the crosses a little too low then too high anyway.
    Of course this would be the smart thing to do if you were aware of a racquet that's more likely to deform. However, that's not always the case. Especially if it's a customer's racquet, it's a lot more comforting for a stringer when the racquet doesn't slide.

  4. #242
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    Of course this would be the smart thing to do if you were aware of a racquet that's more likely to deform. However, that's not always the case. Especially if it's a customer's racquet, it's a lot more comforting for a stringer when the racquet doesn't slide.
    Hi Fishmilk,

    I think that there can be a misunderstanding:
    I do not advise to lower the tension for the crosses because of the sliding.
    I advise that to prevent the racquet from getting longer than it should be.

    Some badminton stringers in the Netherlands did tests to minimize the deformation of racquets after stringing.

    The conclusion was that you get the best results when you tension the crosses 1-1,5 kg lower than the mains.

    So it is better for the racquet also, to prevent it from getting longer.

    I see the sliding problem as a separate "project" to solve.

    The difference between the badminton- and the tennis support is that the tennis racquet is supported by rubber O-ring and the badminton racquet is not.

    A solution that I see is to add friction points inside the supports, we did that before we used the rubber O-ring.
    I wil think about that and send you some samples to test.

  5. #243
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    Fred, I see what you're talking about now. I string tennis as well and I understand that. I suppose the same is not practiced in badminton because the frame is thin and has a much weaker structure than tennis. Thus after doing the mains, the distortion can only be fixed with same or more tension.

    Sorry about the confusion. I thought you advised that to alleviate sliding since the frame not distorting would mean the racquet would stay put.

    Yah friction inside the support is necessary. That's why I suggested if there was ever an improved badminton mounting system, it should have some padding on the inside.

    The last issue is really being able to make some small adjustments without having to relocate the columns every time. This is very time consuming to do because you have to be very careful not to stretch the frame while giving enough pressure to prevent distortion, and also trying to keep the posts the same distance from the center. It would be a lot better if the posts had something where you could turn a knob to make small adjustments. Would take a few seconds instead of a minute or two.

  6. #244
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    The last issue is really being able to make some small adjustments without having to relocate the columns every time. This is very time consuming to do because you have to be very careful not to stretch the frame while giving enough pressure to prevent distortion, and also trying to keep the posts the same distance from the center. It would be a lot better if the posts had something where you could turn a knob to make small adjustments. Would take a few seconds instead of a minute or two.
    This is not an easy change to make, because the consequence of having a fine adjustment also means that all the force of the mains comes on this part.

    I wonder why you need to adjust the racquet exactly in the middle of the turntable?

  7. #245
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    I've always been told that for the most consistent results, you'd want the racquet in the middle of the turntable so that the amount of string it takes to get to the tensioner will be the same.Granted as long as it's close, I'm not going to fret over anything that's less than an inch.

    Still, mounting the racquet would be a lot easier if one didn't have to readjust the columns every time. Especially when in most cases, the difference of racquets in length is no more than 1 cm.

  8. #246
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    Hi Fishmilk,

    I understand the wish for a fine tuning, and when we would do the "badminton special machine" I would certainly put it on my list.

    I've always been told that for the most consistent results, you'd want the racquet in the middle of the turntable so that the amount of string it takes to get to the tensioner will be the same.Granted as long as it's close, I'm not going to fret over anything that's less than an inch.
    I am afraid that this is a mechanical mistake;
    The tension in the string is independent of the length to the tensioner. The string has to be in balance which means that the force on both ends have to be the same independent of the length.
    There is no way to loose tension in a free hanging string.

  9. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringtechno View Post
    I am afraid that this is a mechanical mistake;
    The tension in the string is independent of the length to the tensioner. The string has to be in balance which means that the force on both ends have to be the same independent of the length.
    There is no way to loose tension in a free hanging string.
    Even so, the string with be stretched differently. It might be unnoticeable, I've never tried it any other way, nor would I want to in case one end might not reach the tensioner if you're tight on string. Still I believe almost all stringers try to get the racquet head close to the middle of the turntable and is considered good practice.

  10. #248
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    Hi.

    If you are pre-weaving and you racket is on the edge of the turning table the loop of the string will possible not reach the tensioner. If it reaches - it means a big part of it will be wasted.
    If you are not pre-weaving but using string from 10m pack and you are stringing a racket like some Forza's - with dense string pattern and big frame - the last crosses possible will not reach the tensioner if racket is off-centered. In this case you will need some additional efforts using starting clamp and a piece of wasted string.

    So not-centered racket can potencially create more problems then centered.

  11. #249
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    does any one need to recalibrate the machine? I have not checked the accurancy of the machine with a fish scale, I'm currently using the 1small +1large weight thanks

  12. #250
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    Distanc3does any one need to recalibrate the machine? I have not checked the accurancy of the machine with a fish scale, I'm currently using the 1small +1large weight thanks
    Hi Dantance3,
    I understand the idea to test the dropweight with a fishscale, the question is however: What are you testing the fishscale or the tensioner?
    The dropweight is a very accurate and simple sistem based on the very simple theory of a force working on a lever.
    The fishscale is a complicated thing, with a force transducer and electronics, that makes the impression that it is accurate because it shows a the result on a digital display.
    People who know about measuring tools know that every tool has an inaccuracy, depending on the quality.

    We had one customer who tested the tensioner of the ml100 with his fishscale and it was more than a kg off under a certain angle.

    we got the unit back and tested with 2 different devices and the maximum deviation was 0,87 % when the levler was under an angle of 25 degrees.

    The nice thing about the dropweight is its simplicity. When the scale is right and the weight has the right dimensions the tension is good.

  13. #251
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    I was just curious, because i dont have a fish scale i wanted to ask other members if there is any discrepancy between whats written on the ruler and the fish scale.

  14. #252
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    I understand you always get wiser from being curious.

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    Hi stringtechno,
    i bought a used ml100 from someone who lost the ruler that came with the machine and i have a digital fish scale. Given what you said, would u advise using the fish scale as a reliable source to mark tension reference points on the bar with a sharpie? or would you say one of those manual spring loaded calibrators are more reliable?

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    Default Tension setting is only reference tension

    Quote Originally Posted by powerbaddy View Post
    Hi stringtechno,
    i bought a used ml100 from someone who lost the ruler that came with the machine and i have a digital fish scale. Given what you said, would u advise using the fish scale as a reliable source to mark tension reference points on the bar with a sharpie? or would you say one of those manual spring loaded calibrators are more reliable?
    \
    Hi powerpaddy,

    Of course it is a good idea to use a fish scale to mark the bar. Even if the scale is a some % off it is not important. The hole stringing job is full with all kind of tension losses so it is much more important to minimize these.
    It is important for you to have the scale so that you can reproduce tensions.

    I am waiting until the badminton world starts to string on the end result (SBS) instead of the tension.

    With such high tensions and so much friction in the system the difference in result between different stringers must be huge.

    Good luck with your machine, it will last for ever.

  17. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerbaddy View Post
    Hi stringtechno,
    i bought a used ml100 from someone who lost the ruler that came with the machine and i have a digital fish scale. Given what you said, would u advise using the fish scale as a reliable source to mark tension reference points on the bar with a sharpie? or would you say one of those manual spring loaded calibrators are more reliable?
    Yes, I have tried this already. It works.

    I have used a kitchen scale for calibrating (it was bought from fishermans shop - so it almost a fish scale :-) ).

    During marking I have used an empty racket frame put on the stringing machine - to make sure that setup almost the same like in real stringing session.

    You can do one additional adjustment - Stringway has a badminton weight which is too light - the end of the bar is 11 kg as far as I remember. This is a problem when you are doing 11/12 kg - you need to add a second weight during stringing. Since I am not stringing tennis - I have added permanent 0.5 kg weight to the badminton weight. It will give you range from 7 kg to 15 kg without need to change the weights.

    Regards,

    Valentinas

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