Tie Score Dilemma

Thank you for all who read and replied about the "illegal service" thread. Here is another issue I've just dealt with the other day during a high school match between our number 1 varsity girls doubles and would like to get your opinion on this issue.

My players were down 13-14 (on the third set) when they got their serve back. They scored on their first serve and tied the game 14-14. Since our girls did not say anything and also paused for a few seconds waiting for their opponent to choose what they would want to do in which they did not say anything at all and got into position for the next service. So my girls continued the game first, by presenting the birdie or shuttlecock to her opponent and clearly saying point-14 which a number of people, including myself, heard. My girls won the point and game, or so it seemed. When my girls went to go shake their hands, they immediately said that they were suppose to go to 17. My girls told them they did not say anything when the score was tied 14-14, which they also admitted to both myself and the other coach. The IBF rule states:7.5 If the score becomes 14-all (10-all in women’s singles), the side which first scored 14 (10) shall choose either Law 7.5.1 or 7.5.2: 7.5.1 to continue the game to 15 (11) points, ie not to ‘set’ the game; or 7.5.2 to ‘set’ the game to 17 (13) points.

Here is the dilemma, the opposing coach's first issue is that her girls were not "offered" a choice when my girls scored and tied the game 14-14. First thing, the IBF rule does not state anything about an "offer to" but "shall" choose whether they would like to play to 15 or 17. Second thing, my girls do not have to say anything either since for one, they were not the first to get to 14, second, they had two serves to win the game at 15 and third, the IBF rule does not say that our players have to say anything when it clearly states that the player(s) who scored 14 first shall choose what they would like to do and third, after both my players and their opponents prepared for the next service, our palyers "thought" that they didn't want to set or play to 17, served, scored and won the point, match and game.

What player or coach would tell or offer to their opponent if they would like to set and play 3 more points especially when you or your player is "on a roll" or that you have two serves (in a doubles match) to win the game? If the opposing team does not "choose" either play to 15 or 17, where does the game default to? The problem I see in the scoring system in the IBF rules is that there is no "default" to play to 15 or 17 if the player(s) did not choose either one. That is second issue the opposing coach complained about. In my opinion, if my opponent does not say either or the two rules after I tie him at 14-14 and prepares for my service, it is a game up to 15 and if I win that service, I win the game. After arguing all the way up to their high school AD (Athletic Director), our girls were forced to play to 17 and lost 17-15 match and game. Our team still one the game 13-2 but the point of their match was not about winning, but what is fair. I felt whole heartedly that we followed the rules and that they should have won their game and second that their coach should teach his players more about the rules of the game because if those girls were to play in a tournament, they will most certainly lose the set or game if they did not choose either to "set" or play to 15. Thank you for your time and hope to read your response on this issue.

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I can see if there was a scoring judge during a match where the judge can ask both players to set or to play to 15 and I also understand that the sport of Badminton is a "gentleman, gentlewoman" sport where the player who catches up to and tie the game as 14 may ask the other opponent whether they would like to "set" or play to 15, but the IBF rule does not stipulate the person who catches up from behind to tie the game at 14 have to offer the opponent to "set" or play to 15. IBF only states in their rule is that the player(s) who got to 14 first "shall" choose to either "set" or to play to 15 (IBF rule 7.5, 7.5.1, and 7.5.2). So it is up to them to say it not the opposing team who caught up to them to tie the game. My players chose to not say anything which is not illegal under the IBF rules and their opponents did not say anything either and got in their position to recieve my players serve in which we that point and supposed the game. If the players who got to 14 first and does not choose either "set" or play to 15 and prepares themselves for the next service, where would the default lie?

There should be a stipulation added in the scoring system rule that if no choice was made from the players who got to 14 first and prepares for the next service, that the game will default to whomever gets to 15 will win the match or game. Now how often would this issue arrise in a game? To me, very rare. The fact that I teach my players if they tie 14-14 to always "choose" to "set" or if they would like, to play to 15 is imbedded in their brains. Take in consideration that your opponents aren't mind readers and will most, if not all of the time not give you a benefit of the doubt.

 

Besides myself, there were few others who saw and heard my player actually said' "point-14". When the others were watching the game like myself, my player paused for a moment waiting for the team to choose something. When she noticed nothing was said and they're opponents went to prepare for the serve, she immediately presented the birdie or shuttlecock, called out the loud and clear "point-14", served, rallied for a few shot and won the point which should have been the match and game.

For instance, if I were to reverse the tables and asked if my players called "set" and they did not, that would be against them and of course accept the loss. There is nothing to defend them with. It was their fault for not choosing what they wanted to do when they reached the tie. I would then tell all my players either after the game or the next practice to teach and make them remember that if that situation happens again, they would be smart enough to call "set". The way my players conduct themselves on the court wherever they are will reflect on me and how I taught them to play and act.

 

In the IBF rules:If the score becomes 14-all (10-all in women’s singles), the side which first scored 14 (10) shall choose either Law 7.5.1 or 7.5.2:. My girls got their serve back which means they had two serves and was down 13-14. My girls caught up and tied the game 14-14 with a second serve to go. The IBF rule above states that the player(s) who got 14 first (their opponents) must choose. My girls had no say in it and waited for their opponents to choose something. They did not say anything and prepared for the next serve. She then presented the birdie or shuttlecock to her opponent, called the score loud enough spectators and several coaches heard it and served. We got the point and my girls should have won the game. You say my girls were not respecting the rules, where in the IBF rules did they not respect it? My player waited for them to say something. Isn't that respect for the opponent instead of calling match point and serving it immediatley? Is it my fault that their coach did not teach them how to set or when to set? My girls aren't mind readers and does not look for the best advantage for their opponents to win. This is still a competition and if your opponent(s) do not know the rules, then who's fault is it?

As a responsible coach, and if the tables were turned in this situation and my girls did not call set and loss that point, there would be no going back. My girls would have lost because they did not follow the rules as stated above in IBF 7.5 and it would be my fault because I failed to to teach them properly. Please tell me where my girls disrespect the rules according to the IBF rules?

Thank you to all for your opinions on this issue. I greatly appreciate all your comments.

 

First off, if you care to look at the IBF rules there is nothing that says the players who caught-up to tie the game at 14-14 can say anything. Second, they waited long enough for their opponents to get ready for the next serve. Third, if you hear your opponent call point-14, would you not know to put your hand up and say something like, "can we please set to 3." or at least say anything at all. So your telling me, that all the years you played badminton, all your opponents offered to set to 3? An opponent you played who ties you and gets ready for his point serve to win the game did not think to say, "would you like to set to 3?" It would be you at fault for not saying anything and not your opponent if you got ready to prepare for his serve and lost the point. Are going to tell your opponent, "oops...I forgot to set to 3. Can we play on until 17?" What if your opponent says, "Read the rule book. There is nothing in there where I have to offer you a "set". I win because you did not say anything and prepared for my service in which I served and you lost the point." Your opponent had enough "etiquette" to wait long enough for you to do some type of action like raising your hand to choose or play straight on because you went to go and prepare for your opponents serve. Is it your opponents fault that you forgot and did not have the commonsense to say something? Or are you going to merely say that was unsportsmanlike because I forgot and you should have reminded me? Maybe the next time you play that person again you might want to call every umpire needed because you might forget your score, what lines you are playing, and that he has no etiquette and very unsportsmanlike and I don't know my rules and my opponent will not remind me during the game.

I would like to illustrate again what you are not seeing and it is that there is nothing in the rulebook for the player to catches up and to tie the score to say anything and that makesthem naughty? If your talking about etiquette, they (my players) chose not say anything and WAITED long enough for them to get ready for the service, present the shuttlecock, CALL THE SCORE LOUD "POINT-14", to serve and for their opponents to ANSWER the serve. During any of those times they would had enough time to raise their hands to call "set". If you feel that is not "etiquette" and "sportmanslike" enough because there was no umpire, then maybe you should ask the IBF for another stipulation stating that the person who catches up to tie the score must offer their opponents a choice. I would love to hear the response you get back from it.