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  1. #137
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    Passion for the game , National pride is important. Both also have to play an equal part in it. Thats true. One of the reason that america doesnt promote the game so much is because there is no $$$ in it..what in for them? For them , $$$ is the main issue. But if there is good connections , a great proposal.. badminton can be like NBA in america as well.

    We just need to run "badminton" as an advertising business in order for it to work and get more coverage.
    Passion to play to promote is there.. just that currently there is no right people and team for the job.

  2. #138
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    Smile Yonex?

    Well, I used to start off with yonex blacken and the good old cab 7 and cab 8. Unfortunately, the quality just deteriorate at time goes by. Any the price begins to rise to such an exorbitant rate until some poor people just can't afford it.

    I guess we are all human. It's all management. If they makes the wrong decision (like gosen), they need to bear the brunt from the competition. Badminton is a wonderful game and if you get the right people to manage it (which includes the BAs), I am sure badminton can grow as good as the other so called more popular sports. I notice that those who control the body are mainly ex-nationals; which is good since the know the sport well; however, they are not sales or marketing people to help grow the sport.

    Competition is good and healthy and may the best vendor make the best value racket wins. Also tribute to Yonex as being the leader so far, which makes the world spins in terms on getting people to buy new rackets.

    Anyway, lets enjoy the game; it'll be here for a long while.

    All the best and may all your smashing power improves!

  3. #139
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    winston, there is some difference between china and US, social, economical, cultural and political. Here is a social study short course.

    national pride is a national responsibility, not an individual one. National pride has values to a communist or socialist regime. American sociey is more individualistic based. China can pump money to any group/organization or people they like to promote. In the capitalist US, if u want it, u fund it, u build it. Dont tell me tiger wood, or US olympicans do it for national pride. It has individual desire (main) component to it. In canada, we have donuhue bailey 100m gold, an albertan in triathetlon gold, a calgarian gynmast gold. Do u think canadian kids all want to be 100m sprinter, a gymnast or an ironman? U think our media coverage is all over track and field, gymnastic, triathetlon?? Dont bet on it.

    here is an example, (cut & pasted to save me typing, 2 sources). China gov't wanted prestige and glamor, throw in million $$$, boom, instant national pride.

    Nearly two years in the making, the Shanghai International Circuit rises out of former farmland in the Shanghai suburb of Jiading, home to the city's bustling car industry.

    Its 5.4km circuit features a punishing 14 turns, some on 8 percent grades. Seating areas can accommodate up to 200,000 people, about 1 percent of the population of greater Shanghai.


    But of all the tracks of the 17-race season, Shanghai is widely seen as one of the best, winning rave reviews after hosting an inaugural Formula 1 last year.

    Designed by renowned architect Hermann Tilke, the impressive facility arose from a bog and features a 5.45km track composed of 16 turns and a massive straight of 1 175m.

    Formula 1 world champion Michael Schumacher called it the "best track I've seen, a fabulous facility". - Reuters


    I ask u, how many formula 1 fans in china?????????

    the aspiration of 99.99999999% of chinese there is owning a motorbike and a car for the upper middle class. Formula 1? what is that (to them)

  4. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by winstonchan

    If you and Cooler keeps on thinking that badminton is stuck in a chicken-an-egg cycle, then there's no way out to this topic. First of all, you yourself must believe that there is a way out, because Badminton IS popular in other countries like China and Denmark. Why? What have these countries done that US has not done? Why do the Chinese government, the Danish government, and now even the British government after Nathan Robertson and Gail Emms won medal in the Sydney Olympic, are pouring money into developing this sport? Why aren't the US government not doing anything? And the best example, the Brits have been so down in badminton until the MXD pair won an Olympic medal in 2000. They did not play for money. There is no money in Olympic. They played for National Pride. Money, fame, comes afterwards. The same in all sports and business.
    There is no money in education too (actually , it cost u money) but u go to school+university and write exams year after year for what, national pride too? Do a poll here and see how many players here play or seek improvement for national pride? I play for personal reason: my passion, my health, my entertainment. Note the word 'my'.

    The bolted statement of your is just so...... out of touch of reality, expecially the business part. Business exist only because of money. If Yonex management & staff work for free, then i'll agree with you.
    Last edited by cooler; 05-06-2005 at 07:49 PM.

  5. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    There is no money in education too (actually , it cost u money) but u go to school+university and write exams year after year for what, national pride too?
    It's not like anyone has a choice whether to go to school / college. It's mandatory to be in school at least until a certain age. Unlike badminton which is not a compulsory thing to do.

  6. #142
    Regular Member winstonchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    There is no money in education too (actually , it cost u money) but u go to school+university and write exams year after year for what, national pride too? Do a poll here and see how many players here play or seek improvement for national pride? I play for personal reason: my passion, my health, my entertainment. Note the word 'my'.

    The bolted statement of your is just so...... out of touch of reality, expecially the business part. Business exist only because of money. If Yonex management & staff work for free, then i'll agree with you.
    Ok, i agreed i made a mistake on making my statement where business is done with national pride. Business is not done with national pride, it's done for money (except the japanese who still see their brands as national pride).

  7. #143
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    Default quiz

    popular mainstream sports in US are basketball, baseball, hockey, football.
    Players and owners are there under contract.
    Everyone of those associations have had labor dispute (ie, strike).

    Quiz
    Did they strike for

    a) national pride
    b) fan appreciation
    c) betterment of the game
    d) self interest.

  8. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEND.
    It's not like anyone has a choice whether to go to school / college. It's mandatory to be in school at least until a certain age. Unlike badminton which is not a compulsory thing to do.
    so it's a national pride to torture kids then

    (help me here Joanne, you're an expert in writing exams)
    Last edited by cooler; 05-06-2005 at 08:09 PM.

  9. #145
    Regular Member winstonchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    winston, there is some difference between china and US, social, economical, cultural and political. Here is a social study short course.

    national pride is a national responsibility, not an individual one. National pride has values to a communist or socialist regime. American sociey is more individualistic based. China can pump money to any group/organization or people they like to promote. In the capitalist US, if u want it, u fund it, u build it. Dont tell me tiger wood, or US olympicans do it for national pride. It has individual desire (main) component to it. In canada, we have donuhue bailey 100m gold, an albertan in triathetlon gold, a calgarian gynmast gold. Do u think canadian kids all want to be 100m sprinter, a gymnast or an ironman? U think our media coverage is all over track and field, gymnastic, triathetlon?? Dont bet on it.
    Cooler,

    Passion for a sport (any sport) may be an individual thing - as you mentioned my entertainment, my desire to be the winner.... But national pride is on the macro scale. Yes i do to certain extent agree that National Pride is stronger in a Communist or Socialist country like China, but it is wrong to say that Americans or Canadians do sport for individual desire. When the medal or title is won, it would not just be my medal, my honour, but American medal, American honour, Canadian honour...... To be a sport champion, the desire and hard-work is from the individual, but the honour is shared by the country.

    And explain to me why countries in the West like Denmark and England, and are also doing well.... I believe there is a strong element in National Pride from these countries too. They are not Communist or Socialist...

    So back to the topic, it takes one individual in America to have his or her own desire to become a Badminton champion, then when the medal comes, the public, the government, will turn their heads and open their eyes to this person, and to the game as as national pride. Yonex and media will turn their heads to US badminton as business.

  10. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    so it's a national pride to torture kids then

    (help me here Joanne, you're an expert in writing exams)
    Offtopc a bit, but it's true. School doesn't achieve much anymore. It's more of a daycare centre more than anything else now.

    Btw Joanne is having exams now...

  11. #147
    Regular Member winstonchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    here is an example, (cut & pasted to save me typing, 2 sources). China gov't wanted prestige and glamor, throw in million $$$, boom, instant national pride.

    Nearly two years in the making, the Shanghai International Circuit rises out of former farmland in the Shanghai suburb of Jiading, home to the city's bustling car industry.

    Its 5.4km circuit features a punishing 14 turns, some on 8 percent grades. Seating areas can accommodate up to 200,000 people, about 1 percent of the population of greater Shanghai.


    But of all the tracks of the 17-race season, Shanghai is widely seen as one of the best, winning rave reviews after hosting an inaugural Formula 1 last year.

    Designed by renowned architect Hermann Tilke, the impressive facility arose from a bog and features a 5.45km track composed of 16 turns and a massive straight of 1 175m.

    Formula 1 world champion Michael Schumacher called it the "best track I've seen, a fabulous facility". - Reuters

    I ask u, how many formula 1 fans in china?????????

    the aspiration of 99.99999999% of chinese there is owning a motorbike and a car for the upper middle class. Formula 1? what is that (to them)
    Cooler, this is getting off the topic and i see what you're trying to say. If you're taking F1 circuit as an example, then I can give you so many examples in China that the large Chinese public don't have a clue on, but China has got it. China sent a man to Space. OK sending a man to space is not a sport, more likely for more business in future. But hey, you think there's no National Pride in the whole project? It's one individual desire to send a man to Space?

    Back to the Badminton Popularity. It takes one individual to have the passion and desire to become a Champion for US - just one title or one medal, can be Under 17 too if not the GP tournaments, to tell the government why the game deserves support. Then it's the national pride feeling of the large public that US has a champion and therefore arouse interest of the public to pursue this sport.... Then when US badminton popularity increases, Yonex will come knock on your door. If US badminton goes to Yonex now and knock on their door for money, the door won't get opened.
    Last edited by winstonchan; 05-06-2005 at 08:42 PM.

  12. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by winstonchan
    Cooler, this is getting off the topic and i see what you're trying to say. If you're taking F1 circuit as an example, then I can give you so many examples in China that the large Chinese public don't have a clue on, but China has got it. China sent a man to Space. OK sending a man to space is not a sport, more likely for more business in future. But hey, you think there's no National Pride in the whole project? It's one individual desire to send a man to Space?

    You have digressed a bit. The man to space project is in the same line as the F1 race circuit. No grassroot base but a chinese gov't agenda that gave to an instant national pride and a national pride to be reckon with. U had said before that badminton popularity must be rooted from nation's passion and participation. My example of F1 circuit debunk that. Your man to space example also 'supports' my argument.

    Back to the Badminton Popularity. It takes one individual to have the passion and desire to become a Champion for US - just one title or one medal, can be Under 17 too if not the GP tournaments, to tell the government why the game deserves support. Then it's the national pride feeling of the large public that US has a champion and therefore arouse interest of the public to pursue this sport.... Then when US badminton popularity increases, Yonex will come knock on your door. If US badminton goes to Yonex now and knock on their door for money, the door won't get opened.
    Yonex does support ALL sponsored players OF ANY COUNTRIES. In case u dunno, yonex offers CASH AWARDS (decent but well not in the same scale as golf masters and wimbledon prize) to any sponsored players winning medals (even semi's) in WC, olympic, TC, Sudiman cup, etc IE, the incentive is there for u to be good and get sponsored. I'm not sure if kevin han and howard bach was/are officially sponsored by yonex but if they r, they are eligible for the cash prizes too (from yonex) if they win the biggies. Some top canadian players are sponsored by yonex too.
    Last edited by cooler; 05-06-2005 at 11:56 PM.

  13. #149
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    Question yonex.

    Hey,
    Lets keep it back to yonex... keep it cool...

  14. #150
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    To promote badminton we need a TEAM. Yonex alone is not enough. Anyway they have helped alot in terms of promoting badminton. Yonex also have their own limitation. We need other large corporations and private entities as well to sponsor the players , the teams and the event as well (preferably from the States).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    there there, you're getting warm.
    It's back to the source, lack of leadership.

    IBF is too one dimensional, tinkering the scores, uniform, court size, etc. Very narrowed mind. What they should do is more media relationship / interaction. Like dan fan said, supply writeup of recent result to media network, give them video clips. Hell, give the media people copyright exempted videos of the recent tournament as promo, just like free samples in any new product introduction. What is the point locking those videos in the vault and charging expensive dvds to the fans. Badminton won't get exposure by having IBF officials in meetings, they have to go out there and sell, sell, sell! IBF need to pounds the pavement, not selecting color scheme of player's shirt, re-jigging scoring system and redrawing lines of courts in the meeting rooms

    just visited ibf site. They are charging 37 USD for one dvd disk, that's crazy.
    I can buy 2 dvd disks featuring latest hollywood movies much cheaper than that.

  16. #152
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    Default Marketing 101

    --------------------
    To push a product, or a sport, for that matter, you have to go back to the basics of marketing - - the four Ps - - product, price, place and promo

    1. Product - The product/sport must be "saleable" or a "good product" . No problem here since badminton is a "good product" - it's fun, good exercise, competitive, etc. No offense to swimmers but badminton is a much more "fun" sport than swimming - - yet swimming is much more popular. Why? look at the other marketing P's

    2. Price - No problem here either. Badminton is a relatively cheap sport than, say, golf, although it's more expensive than others such as basketball. But generally, it's an affordable sport, as long as one has a job or steady allowance.

    3. Place - Ah here lies the problem. Badminton courts are not that accessible in some areas in the world. No court, no play. Note that the recent rise in popularity of badminton in Manila is due to the proliferation of badminton courts the past 2-3 years. I learned the sport 20 years ago but back then, one could only play if one had access to the exclusive (and very expensive) sportclubs in Manila. It was therefore an unpopular sport. In recent years, however, a lot of factories in Manila closed down and moved their operations to China. Some bright person had the idea to convert a factory warehouse to a badminton court (wherein any middle class income person could play) and voila! others followed, and, - -badminton arrives!!

    Going back to my earlier example why swimming is probably more popular - -You can access a pool almost anywhere in the world.

    4. Promo - This is where the Yonex et al come in. However, marketing dictates that you only pour funds into promotional activities if the other "Ps" are already in place. That's why Yonex sponsors tournaments where badminton is already popular.

    Conclusion: To make badminton popular - - you have to fix the two P's - - the Place and Promo, i.e. put up the courts first and then promote the sport.

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    Very well put. I totally agree with that we need to have more courts and increase the promotion. At this current state, even a successful marketing would turn into a failure because where would people go to play badminton? Its not like tennis where almost every public park / facility have tons of tennis courts. Lots more places needs to be opened up to the PUBLIC for badminton to achieve any kind of real momentum.

    With all that said, its not necessary to put off the promotion for badminton as a TV sport. There are lots of successful commercial sports arent really sports that most viewers would play or participate themselves such as boxing, Bull-riding, car racing, beach volleyball or even Football ( american ). Badminton can sure use some help with big prizes such as million dollar prizes. Currently the best example is Women's boxing is getting alot of publicity and getting lots of AIR time becuase it has a match worth 1 Million US dollars between 2 top ranking female boxers. Its interesting what inspired this match is the movie Million Dollar Baby. One of them is the "bad" female boxer in the movie.

    Anyways, million dollar prizes is similar to what I suggested what badminton needs for it to become a major sport in North America. We ought to start makiing badminton worth while to watch for everyone instead of just watching it based on just special interest of badminton players. We need to make it interesting to watch for the general public because the tournament winners are going to walk away a million dollar richer like athletes in other major sports on TV.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Saunders
    --------------------
    To push a product, or a sport, for that matter, you have to go back to the basics of marketing - - the four Ps - - product, price, place and promo

    1. Product - The product/sport must be "saleable" or a "good product" . No problem here since badminton is a "good product" - it's fun, good exercise, competitive, etc. No offense to swimmers but badminton is a much more "fun" sport than swimming - - yet swimming is much more popular. Why? look at the other marketing P's

    2. Price - No problem here either. Badminton is a relatively cheap sport than, say, golf, although it's more expensive than others such as basketball. But generally, it's an affordable sport, as long as one has a job or steady allowance.

    3. Place - Ah here lies the problem. Badminton courts are not that accessible in some areas in the world. No court, no play. Note that the recent rise in popularity of badminton in Manila is due to the proliferation of badminton courts the past 2-3 years. I learned the sport 20 years ago but back then, one could only play if one had access to the exclusive (and very expensive) sportclubs in Manila. It was therefore an unpopular sport. In recent years, however, a lot of factories in Manila closed down and moved their operations to China. Some bright person had the idea to convert a factory warehouse to a badminton court (wherein any middle class income person could play) and voila! others followed, and, - -badminton arrives!!

    Going back to my earlier example why swimming is probably more popular - -You can access a pool almost anywhere in the world.

    4. Promo - This is where the Yonex et al come in. However, marketing dictates that you only pour funds into promotional activities if the other "Ps" are already in place. That's why Yonex sponsors tournaments where badminton is already popular.

    Conclusion: To make badminton popular - - you have to fix the two P's - - the Place and Promo, i.e. put up the courts first and then promote the sport.

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