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    Default Where to move after lifting??

    I am confused why EOM kept trying to move to the left twice after lifting from 13:30 to 13:40.. Thanks..

    Last edited by pcll99; 11-28-2014 at 08:08 AM.

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    She lifted to her right, then move back to the left; this is correct. Let her partner, who is stronger in defense take the straight smashes.
    If Yoo had lift to his right, he should move back to the right (same side) to defend the straight smashes.

    If the lady partner is very strong in smash defense, then it is possible for the lady defense straight smashes. In general, we would want to avoid it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincook View Post
    She lifted to her right, then move back to the left; this is correct. Let her partner, who is stronger in defense take the straight smashes.
    If Yoo had lift to his right, he should move back to the right (same side) to defend the straight smashes.

    If the lady partner is very strong in smash defense, then it is possible for the lady defense straight smashes. In general, we would want to avoid it.
    Thanks.

    At 46:30 to 46:32, EOM lifted to her side, but afterwards she stayed at her side. How come? Is it because she would be defending a smash from Zhao?

    Thanks again.

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    when she lifts straight shes very far on that side - too far to retreat back to the cross-court side. Plus, as you say, she's lifting to the lady...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    I am confused why EOM kept trying to move to the left twice after lifting from 13:30 to 13:40..
    You have your answers from the others. In MIXED doubles, it is different to level doubles. Ideally, the female player would defend cross court - as in the first examples (lifting striaght and then retreating to defend cross court). However, this is not always possible without putting the pair wildly out of position. Even when lifting to the opposing lady, the preference would still be to defend cross court, but its not always possible.

    In some cases e.g. Lilliana Natsir, the female defence is far stronger than the man - and then it can vary even more - but the preference is always the lady defends cross court smashes, because there is more chance of counter attacking and moving forwards to attack the net.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    Thanks.

    At 46:30 to 46:32, EOM lifted to her side, but afterwards she stayed at her side. How come? Is it because she would be defending a smash from Zhao?

    Thanks again.
    EOM is quite a clever player, as is the chatter here on BC. In both of these rallies she shows good defense and some creative shots. But I had to laugh at the end of the rally you quote above when EOM's partner, Yoo, sets her up for death with a weak push to the waiting Zhang. Then Yoo just stands there looking at her on the floor, like "what's her problem?"

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    Last question: at 12:05 to 12:08, after lifting cross court, why did EOM move up to the net?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    Last question: at 12:05 to 12:08, after lifting cross court, why did EOM move up to the net?
    Because it was a flat lift - so could not be attacked steeply, meaning she has to defend drives and not smashes. This means she can go forwards and attack the net - know there is not a smash coming. Basically: she went forwards because it was a more aggressive lift, more of a drive, and hence she felt she could move forwards to attack the net.

    I would not expect most recreational players to be able to do that - because if the drive comes it take very quick racket skills which many players at lower levels would not possess.

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    i found another EOM's game.. at 13:59 to 14:02, EOM lifted, stayed at the net and moved towards Ma Jin!! I just don't understand!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8r6ftkbZA

    And then at 17:52, she moved up to the net when Xu Chen was about to smash!!!
    Last edited by pcll99; 12-07-2014 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    i found another EOM's game.. at 13:59 to 14:02, EOM lifted, stayed at the net and moved towards Ma Jin!! I just don't understand!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8r6ftkbZA

    And then at 17:52, she moved up to the net when Xu Chen was about to smash!!!
    Its the same as before - she believes that she will be able to attack the smash that comes and hence moves forward to the net. She has Ma Jin on the back line, and is not afraid of the incoming smash - so she steps in to attack it. You would not see this in mens doubles, it is almost unique to the lady in mixed doubles, where getting on the attack in the correct formation is very important.

    You will notice that against Xu Chen, she fakes moving backwards and then, seeing the opportunity to counter attack against his smash, charges forwards in a crouch defence - because Xu Chen is not going to be able to hit it steeply, she knows that she has a good chance of counter attacking. She actually does that twice in the same rally, and the second time wins the rally.

    So, I am going to be honest with you, I think you are missing the point. Badminton is about tactics and using tactics that work. An opponent will not expect you to lift then rush the net - because most players do not have the skills to deal with a smash at that range. However, if you had a good defence, and knew your partner would not be put under pressure if you rush the net, then why not use it every now and then? I do.

    What are the disadvantages of this tactic - almost impossible to defend a cross court smash AND cross court clear. It is also very difficult to do without extremely good racket skills and tactical/spatial awareness.

    So if your opponent KNOWS its coming or spots it early enough, then you are putting your side in a terrible position. Notice: she is moving in such a way that means they are highly vulnerable to certain shots (in particular cross court smashes and clears). If YOU did this, and you were my partner, and we lost the point because of a cross court clear, I would be furious. If you won the point, because they gave it to you, I would think it was risky but worth it in the end.

    I hope you can understand what I am trying to say. Badminton is about using tactics to beat opponents and sometimes that involves taking risks or doing something out of the ordinary - because it gives you the element of surprise over your opponent. But, like all tactics, its only worth doing if it works. If it doesn't work, then its not worth doing, and in this case, it will often not work because it requires a LOT of skill.

    Good luck in your game - I hope what I said makes sense.

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    Great breakdown, a joy to read and watch.

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    Yep, as usual Matt gives the best answer. That's why he's a coach.

    In our group, there's this advanced player who does this because he's not only fast in hands and legs but also eyes.

    If he (or his partner) made a good attacking clear that puts them in a strong position and anticipates the opponent can't attack with a smash, ie has to drop, drive or weak clear, then he rushes the net to intercept. Very deadly against weaker players.

    But against similarly advanced players, who can see his movement with peripheral vision, they can use deception against him by "pretending" to be out of position. And then play a shot that is aimed at the empty spaces that inevitably has to open up as he rushes front and his partner has to cover the back.

    Risky yes, but very calculated risk. And when it works, the weaker opponents are under severe mental pressure because they will feel like they have run out of options.
    Last edited by visor; 12-07-2014 at 08:23 PM.

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    I haven't looked at the video but if she moved up to the net as he smashes, he is probably looking up at the shuttle with only a limited peripheral vision view. So she is taking advantage of

    A) his predictability of shot
    B) his last image of the opponents court position (which she has changed very quickly as he looks up).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    i found another EOM's game.. at 13:59 to 14:02, EOM lifted, stayed at the net and moved towards Ma Jin!! I just don't understand!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8r6ftkbZA

    And then at 17:52, she moved up to the net when Xu Chen was about to smash!!!
    MSeeley's answer is very good, read it thoroughly!!

    If you have a look at the situation at 17:52:
    Xu Chen is a little wrong-footed and late. He will not be able to perform a steep full-smash here! It speaks for EOM's abilities that she sees this and acts accordingly. She realizes that this is the situation to put pressure on the opponent and attack this (presumably) weak smash!

    Higher level players are much better able to anticipate the range of opponent's possibilities and act accordingly. This is why a very good player can easily win against weaker opponent's without moving fast. The skilled player will very often see, what will come next. The same principle apllies here (on a much more advanced level...)...

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    thank you all, especially to Matt!!! Very helpful information.

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    I should've asked this upfront.


    But generally speaking as an ordinary player for XD, MD or WD, where should I retreat (or move to) after lifting at the net? straight to the back?

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    Side by side... for defence formation.

    Front and back is for attack formation.

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