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View Poll Results: where do you contact during a backhand serve?

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  • near racket top

    214 37.41%
  • sweet spot

    333 58.22%
  • near t-joint

    25 4.37%
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  1. #35
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tutu_h
    surprisingly no one aware of how Tony Gunawan serves. he is serving close to the T-Joint (based on the 2000 Olympics MDF). can someone explain y?

    i have tried his style of serve and notice that the errors r narrowed but it is hard to serve high (need harder hit since the length is shorter from the handle). correct me if i am wrong.
    I have been serving near the T-Joint for about 2 months now and my serve has vastly improved. Prior, opponents would either tee-off on my serve or I would be inconsistent and hit the serve in the net. Now when I'm serving well, it's a weapon. It's much harder for the opponents to attack my serve and I'm much more consistent with it too.

    The reason for serving near the T-Joint is because the string bed is stiffer with less repulsion. That makes the impact on the shuttle more predictable/accurate. You don't need to hit much harder if at all because it takes very little to get the shuttle across.

  2. #36
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    So I guess hitting at the top/bottom won't matter. All preference? Since both ends have little repulsion.

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by taber
    So I guess hitting at the top/bottom won't matter. All preference? Since both ends have little repulsion.
    For me, no, it has to be at the top (T-Joint). The reason being, if you put your arms out to serve, you'll notice the T-Joint is about the right distance apart between your two hands. If you go with the bottom (top of the frame), the distance is too far apart for your hands to get a consistent stroke (compared to the T-Joint position).

  4. #38
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    Okay. I have started doing backhand-serves with the top of the frame part, and it improved my serve by quite alot. Haven't tried at the t-joint yet, will do next training session.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls
    For arguments sake let's say the sweetspot is 100% efficient, and near 12 o'clock is 50% efficient, and we need to get 100 energy units into the shuttle for a good serve.

    hitting in the sweetspot, to give the shuttle 100 energy units, we need to supply 100 energy units. If we hit it too hard, say 110 units, the shuttle gets 100% of the extra energy (10).

    hitting near 12 o'clock, to give the shuttle 100 energy units, we need to supply 200 energy units. If we hit it too hard, say 210 units, the shuttle only gets 50% of the extra energy (5).
    So differences in our swing mean smaller changes in the effect on the shuttle.
    Okay, now I'm confused.
    If the sweetspot transmits 100% of the energy, how come when you smash, you try to hit at the top two third of the racket, instead in the middle in the sweetspot? (That's what I learned anyways...).
    I understand the 5 cm difference in length can give more power, but less power than hitting in the sweetspot....

  6. #40
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    Ok, let me try to take a stab at your confusion. Please correct me if I miss anything or says anything wrong.

    1) Center of the sweet spot is 100% efficient on the transfer for the string. Futher away from the center of the sweet spot and to the 12 o'clock of the frame, the efficiency decrease geometricly. (sorry, this is my assumption , I do not have test to back it up) That is why you have a sweet spot, not a sweet point.
    2) Energy transfer is not 100% from string only. String is only part of it. Bending of the shaft plays a big part also. I think it is not going to take 200% of energy when hitting near 12:00 position to generate same shuttle speed when you hit @ center of sweet spot. I am guessing it is less than 50% additional racquet speed.
    3) The contact point for my backhand serve is just outside of top sweet spot (between top 2nd and 3rd string of Cab 20 MS, some people might think it is still in sweet post) IMHO, I did not use too much more energy when I flick serve just over the opponent's reach. For short serve, I do not feel any extra effort at all.

    Back to the point Neil Nicholls has a very point and I would like to sum his argument this way. Assuming the perfect backhand serve with contact point @ center of sweet spot use 1 unit of energy. If you over hit the serve by 0.1 unit @ sweet spot, the shuttle will travel about 10% further. While if you hit near 12 o'clock you need 2 unit of energy to hit a perfect serve. By over hitting 0.1 unit, the shuttle will only travel about 5% further. Same logic for under hitting the serve.

    My take from Neil Nicholls' idea is that hitting near the 12 o'clock of the frame give you more room for the error. IMHO, if you are use to serve in the center and very good at it, don't change what is not broken.

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy
    Okay, now I'm confused.
    If the sweetspot transmits 100% of the energy, how come when you smash, you try to hit at the top two third of the racket, instead in the middle in the sweetspot? (That's what I learned anyways...).
    I understand the 5 cm difference in length can give more power, but less power than hitting in the sweetspot....
    When you smash, you are (usually) trying to produce the maximum power you can. If you hit the shuttle slightly above the sweetspot, then your arm/racket will be a longer lever. Longer lever = more power and steeper angle.

    But the strings will not transmit energy as efficiently, because you are not hitting in the centre.

    So it is a balance.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum
    When you smash, you are (usually) trying to produce the maximum power you can. If you hit the shuttle slightly above the sweetspot, then your arm/racket will be a longer lever. Longer lever = more power and steeper angle.

    But the strings will not transmit energy as efficiently, because you are not hitting in the centre.

    So it is a balance.
    Thanks Gollum.
    So in the end, you create more angle of attack.
    While it can be logically evident, is there a statiscal difference that a smash hit at the top two-third creates a more steeper angle than at the sweetspot... Ya, I know, evidence based trials (maybe I'm too much a man of science...).

    And for any other shots, except finesse shots, you'd use the sweetspot, right?

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy
    Thanks Gollum.
    So in the end, you create more angle of attack.
    While it can be logically evident, is there a statiscal difference that a smash hit at the top two-third creates a more steeper angle than at the sweetspot... Ya, I know, evidence based trials (maybe I'm too much a man of science...).

    And for any other shots, except finesse shots, you'd use the sweetspot, right?
    I don't think there has been a great deal of scientific research into badminton.

    The principle of hitting smashes slightly above the sweetspot is, as you say, intuitively plausible. It's also backed up by what top players do. The difference in angle is so slight that I think the main benefit is power.

    For most other strokes, you want to use the sweetspot. Possible exception for forehand clears. I would say backhand clears and smashes should be hit on the sweetspot.

    For a low service, as we have been discussing, you may not wish to use the sweetspot. Perhaps some other delicate shots might gain a similar benefit; certainly I often return extremely net shots using the top strings, if only because I don't want to touch the net.

  10. #44
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    Actually I think the top two thirds of the racket is where the sweetspot is for the isometric head shape rackets, so the middle of the sweet spot is about a third from the top of the racket, not halfway as most people assume. The bottom third of the face is a must avoid area, because you lose power and accuracy in the shots and cause mishits. I usually serve in the sweet spot because I slice the shuttle a bit, and hitting in the sweet spot allows me to flick serve without changing the contact point making it less easy to read.

  11. #45
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    There is no correct spot for the contact point.
    It all depend on individual where they feel more comfortable with controlling the shuttle.

    The best control, it all depend on individual feeling, confident, the ability to control the "bounce" of the shuttlecock and many practices.

    For me, it is the near the top BUT the shuttlecock speed does slightly change my contact point, how I position myself and extension of arms as the rebounce speed is different and those adjustment helps.

  12. #46
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    before reading this thread, i have been trying to position the contact shuttle with the racquet surface. i switch the position from shuttle leaning against the surface to shuttle place perpendicular to the surface while retaining hitting at the sweet spot. i notice the projection of the shuttle faster and curve nicely at the net. but gonna try hitting at different area of the surface today

  13. #47
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    i hit the shuttle near the top. it gives me great control on the placement of my serve. i also notice that my flick serves are more accurate this way, almost never landing out (long) and more deceptive, at least thats what my friends say

  14. #48
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    Would some one please demonstrate on simple drawing tha area in the racket !

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHarisson View Post
    Would some one please demonstrate on simple drawing tha area in the racket !
    You mean like the picture in the first post of this thread?

  16. #50
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    Finally someone respond to me. ThanX.
    About your question, yes sort of because I don't know exactly the sweer spot.

  17. #51
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    Just google for sweet spot...

    I found this in some seconds:

    http://yonex.de/uploads/pics/Megaframe.jpg

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