Reasons why Lin Dan is #1 (21/08/05)

**kemana** · 09-15-2005, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRockets

Taufitk threw the flowers to me after the WC final

oh ! i envy you so much! you don't know how much i wish i were there

**genjyo** · 09-16-2005, 01:01 AM

huh?
taiwai open2002?
that's quite a news for me

thank you for confirming the ultima result...
there are so many relevant debates in papers which confuse me a lot

**Ningtyas** · 09-16-2005, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by genjyo

huh?
taiwai open2002?
that's quite a news for me

thank you for confirming the ultima result...
there are so many relevant debates in papers which confuse me a lot

Yeah. Taufik won 2002 Chinese Taipei Open, but we do not know in which round he met Lin Dan, or the score etc.

Quoted from the link, after Indonesia beat China 3-1 in SF Asian Games 2002.

Taufik Hidayat membuka kemenangan bagi tim Indonesia lewat kemenangan 15-2 (-typo, it is 15-12), 17-14 atas tunggal pertama Cina, Lin Dan. Hasil ini merupakan kemenangan kedua kali setelah terakhir kali Taufik mengalahkannya di Cina Taipei Terbuka, beberapa bulan lalu."

**taufik-ist** · 09-18-2005, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by ctjcad

Actually this record is correct, 3-2 in favor of Taufik. He also has won 2 straight over LinDan, and both times in straight sets.

Now, if we are talking and debating on who's "better" etc., between Taufik and LinDan* ONLY, *as of now*, IMO, LinDan is "powerless" against Taufik. However, LD still has a chance to "equal" his head to head match against Taufik in the upcoming China Open(Nov.) if they end up facing against each other again. He also has a chance to equal Taufik's achievement by winning the WC(next year, if Taufik doesn't compete) and Olympics(2008, if Taufik doesn't compete)...So monkeymagic, looking long term and overall, all is not lost for LD...

after receiving his national sport reward, taufik said he was not satisfied yet and he wanted to win more championships

**genjyo** · 09-18-2005, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by taufik-ist

after receiving his national sport reward, taufik said he was not satisfied yet and he wanted to win more championships

huh? that sounds so ambitious....

i really hope i can watch his performance more
i just heard of he will attend og 2008, it is quite a good news for me

**taufik-ist** · 09-18-2005, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by genjyo

huh? that sounds so ambitious....

i really hope i can watch his performance more
i just heard of he will attend og 2008, it is quite a good news for me

that's because of mr Agum Gumelar (taufik's future father inlaw), he asked taufik for playing at least till olympic 2008 in beijing

**kemana** · 09-18-2005, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by taufik-ist

that's because of mr Agum Gumelar (taufik's future father inlaw), he asked taufik for playing at least till olympic ,2008 in beijing

well that is truely a good news for me

**TrunkZ69** · 09-19-2005, 04:51 AM

I honestly think LD's game has dropped a lot recently. He doens't attack as much as he use to, nor does he use his speed to his advantage as much as he use to. I think CH is like LD, both thier games have dropped some what in the past few months. Tafuik on the other hand has always been consistent at winning big events, though he rarely shows up to the smaller events. From what i saw at the WC's, LD's route to the finals were MUCH harder. Not based on purely the player, but the player and the type of day they were having. He played Sato who played with much heart, but still went down in 3. LHI played extremely well, pushing LD into 3 sets. Then who can forget his match against Gade(i cheered for Gade

). Marathon match that seemed to take a toll on both of them physical and mentally. Taufik on also had his fair share of splits. He split with Ponsana in the round of 16, but he was very relaxed the 2nd set, and once he lost that he broke his racket and then decided to win the third one comfortabley. His match vs KJ was odd. He got trashed the first set, but he took the last two sets rather easily. In the SF vs LCW, he destroyed him showing LCW his top form. Then comes the fials between the two, LD never got into it the first game. The 2nd came he tried to hold on, but Taufik wouldn't let him take it. I say at the WC Taufik was defintely the better palyer, but i don't agree that he is the better play in GENERAL. I think their draws made a huge difference. What if BCL played Taufik, would things have panned our differently? Taufik has admited that he's bad vs BCL. I just know from watching LD at the WC, im somewhat dissapoitned in him, i have videos of him from older tournaments werhe he turns up the gas and just obliterates ppl. But at wC's, he was somewhat slow and seemed lazy/defensive the entire time.

And tahst my long two cents.. gosh i had insomnia

**Raphael** · 09-20-2005, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by monkeymagic

SACMAN wrote

Ermm.... Why would he like to be rank no 1 ?!?!!! He is ranked no 1 !! make sense mate.

FYI, #1, it's "BEEN THERE, DONE THAT" for Taufik.
The guy has done it all already, nothing to prove, well except may be All England. As for Lin Dan, we know and he knows he is #1 by name but hasn't got heavy credentials (by winning big tournaments) to back it. And that kind of fells 'hollow'. Ask Kim Clijster that, until she recently made a breakthrough in US Open (I quote tennis as an example). After all, when you're #1, where else can you go but to go down. No matter how consistent LD is, one day he'll be #2 or #20 so it's all downhill for him. Nothing is forever.
As far as history or what they (LD or TH) will be remembered, (for now) both will be remembered as being #1 but only Taufik as #1, Olympic Champion and World Champion.

When you don't rate someone who has been #1, OC, WC, I wonder who you rate? BTW, that guy who wins 5 Grand Slams and has been #1 for 2 years in tennis is Roger Federer, I wonder if you rate him at all?

***jamesd20*** · 09-20-2005, 09:08 AM

Exactly, no prizes for number, no one is remembered for being number one, they are remembered for winning big tournaments, and sweeping all before them.

**Wildstone** · 09-28-2005, 10:36 PM

Let me make this clear, are you guys comparing who is the best amongst all the players or who is better among LIN and HIDAYAT ?

If you are comparing who's the best among all then it is pointless. Take a look at this head to head stats (you can grab this from IBF website) :

LIN VS HIDAYAT (2-3)
LIN VS GADE (7-1)
GADE VS HIDAYAT (7-5)

So , who's the best ? LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but ... and it goes on .

Badminton is not math problem, it won't be necessary a > b > c and thus "a" is greatest. In this situation its a > b , b > c but c > a . Every player has it's strengths and weaknesses. "A" may defeat "B" easily but have a hard time defeating "C" however "B" may find it really easy defeating "C". If you are also a badminton player you should know what I mean. Have you ever had an experience before where you could easily take your friend but your friend has no problem taking an opponent that you find it hard to deal with?

In conclusion, if we really rating the "BEST" amongst all players, we should just go accoding to the ranking (and there goes the ranking system). However, if we are just comparing between LIN and HIDAYAT, then obviously LIN had hard times playing with HIDAYAT. And according to head to head stats HIDAYAT has advantage against LIN.

**Ningtyas** · 09-28-2005, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Wildstone

Let me make this clear, are you guys comparing who is the best amongst all the players or who is better among LIN and HIDAYAT ?

If you are comparing who's the best among all then it is pointless. Take a look at this head to head stats (you can grab this from IBF website) :

LIN VS HIDAYAT (2-3)
LIN VS GADE (7-1)
GADE VS HIDAYAT (7-5)

So , who's the best ? LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but ... and it goes on .

Badminton is not math problem, it won't be necessary a > b > c and thus "a" is greatest. In this situation its a > b , b > c but c > a . Every player has it's strengths and weaknesses. "A" may defeat "B" easily but have a hard time defeating "C" however "B" may find it really easy defeating "C". If you are also a badminton player you should know what I mean. Have you ever had an experience before where you could easily take your friend but your friend has no problem taking an opponent that you find it hard to deal with?

In conclusion, if we really rating the "BEST" amongst all players, we should just go accoding to the ranking (and there goes the ranking system). However, if we are just comparing between LIN and HIDAYAT, then obviously LIN had hard times playing with HIDAYAT. And according to head to head stats HIDAYAT has advantage against LIN.

hi there,
just wish to make a correction. The corrrect record for Taufik-Lin Dan head to head is 5-2 in favor of Taufik. Please read this whole thread for details.
The IBF's record is inaccurate.

**aiyuuw** · 09-28-2005, 11:34 PM

lol, but this thread has gone a lil out of topic indeed, its like the thread's title is : "Who's better, lin dan or taufik hidayat?", lol, but thats fine, its exciting

tho if i have to go back to the topic about why he is #1, its becos his consistency, since in terms of talent, or anything else, at least there are 2 or 3 players that can compare to lin dan, though now people are talking about how he wasnt as invincible as before, i think he is still the most consistent player today, he NEVER, as long as ican remember, lost before semifinal, whereas taufik,,,,well

**Ningtyas** · 09-28-2005, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by aiyuuw

lol, but this thread has gone a lil out of topic indeed, its like the thread's title is : "Who's better, lin dan or taufik hidayat?", lol, but thats fine, its exciting

tho if i have to go back to the topic about why he is #1, its becos his consistency, since in terms of talent, or anything else, at least there are 2 or 3 players that can compare to lin dan, though now people are talking about how he wasnt as invincible as before, i think he is still the most consistent player today, he NEVER, as long as ican remember, lost before semifinal, whereas taufik,,,,well

you are right.

Hi, you forgot the Athens Olympic, that's when he lost before semifinal and Taufik is the gold medallist.

**virusvoodoo** · 09-29-2005, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Wildstone

Let me make this clear, are you guys comparing who is the best amongst all the players or who is better among LIN and HIDAYAT ?

If you are comparing who's the best among all then it is pointless. Take a look at this head to head stats (you can grab this from IBF website) :

LIN VS HIDAYAT (2-3)
LIN VS GADE (7-1)
GADE VS HIDAYAT (7-5)

So , who's the best ? LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but ... and it goes on .

Badminton is not math problem, it won't be necessary a > b > c and thus "a" is greatest. In this situation its a > b , b > c but c > a . Every player has it's strengths and weaknesses. "A" may defeat "B" easily but have a hard time defeating "C" however "B" may find it really easy defeating "C". If you are also a badminton player you should know what I mean. Have you ever had an experience before where you could easily take your friend but your friend has no problem taking an opponent that you find it hard to deal with?

In conclusion, if we really rating the "BEST" amongst all players, we should just go accoding to the ranking (and there goes the ranking system). However, if we are just comparing between LIN and HIDAYAT, then obviously LIN had hard times playing with HIDAYAT. And according to head to head stats HIDAYAT has advantage against LIN.

Well this used to be true until recently after Hidayat got his game back. I am not so sure Gade can hold his ground against Hidayat anymore. I mean Hidayat annihilate Gade in the second set of the Surdiman cup.

**Wong8Egg** · 09-29-2005, 01:15 AM

kinda out of topic, but can anyone tell me who has occupied the world number 1 (IBF ranking) for the longest time in history? could that be LD???

**Raphael** · 09-29-2005, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Wildstone

Let me make this clear, are you guys comparing who is the best amongst all the players or who is better among LIN and HIDAYAT ?

If you are comparing who's the best among all then it is pointless. Take a look at this head to head stats (you can grab this from IBF website) :

LIN VS HIDAYAT (2-3)
LIN VS GADE (7-1)
GADE VS HIDAYAT (7-5)

So , who's the best ? LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but LIN is better than GADE but GADE is better than HIDAYAT but HIDAYAT is better than LIN but ... and it goes on .

Badminton is not math problem, it won't be necessary a > b > c and thus "a" is greatest. In this situation its a > b , b > c but c > a . Every player has it's strengths and weaknesses. "A" may defeat "B" easily but have a hard time defeating "C" however "B" may find it really easy defeating "C". If you are also a badminton player you should know what I mean. Have you ever had an experience before where you could easily take your friend but your friend has no problem taking an opponent that you find it hard to deal with?

In conclusion, if we really rating the "BEST" amongst all players, we should just go accoding to the ranking (and there goes the ranking system). However, if we are just comparing between LIN and HIDAYAT, then obviously LIN had hard times playing with HIDAYAT. And according to head to head stats HIDAYAT has advantage against LIN.

The argument is why Lin Dan is #1 (as the title of the thread) and more implicitly, (unfortunately) not the worthiness of the rank but quite the opposite. #1 by CONSISTENTLY winning smaller tournaments and yet CONSISTENTLY losing to Taufik who is #6 (or #7 at times) cannot be a good measure. Comparing all players by ranking is subjective as well because clearly LD is not better than TH. So, the question now is "Does LD deserve to be #1?" or rather the ranking system of IBF is somehow inaccurate. Perhaps they should have much more weighting for big tournaments.