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Thread: Rudy Hartono

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Mr Bolt won 2012 OLY gold, and I think 7 of the 8 runners were <10sec and the 8th runner was Powell and he did >11 sec because he was hurt, so different times, different everything. ALso, hand timing in Owens times could be 11.3 sec and not 10.3, okay, I am making this up.
    lol, probably jesse owens didn't need to run any faster than 10.3 seconds in 1936 because only a few countries participated in olympics and his competition wasn't that good.

    But if Jesse Owen were alive today, he might be able to run less than 9 seconds because he has to compete with Usain Bolt who is very fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Mr Bolt won 2012 OLY gold, and I think 7 of the 8 runners were <10sec and the 8th runner was Powell and he did >11 sec because he was hurt, so different times, different everything. ALso, hand timing in Owens times could be 11.3 sec and not 10.3, okay, I am making this up.
    You got the point.
    With the circumstances in each own times, past champions like Wong Peng Soon, Eddy Choong, Erland Kops, and Rudy Hartono had same disadvantage in terms of technology, tools, knowledge, nutrition and everything else with any others players at their own time, but they did more and more than anyone to claimed their tittles and be the champion of their own era. So I don't think anyone in this forum has an excuse to turn down and discredit they achievements.

    Quote Originally Posted by julianng View Post
    lol, probably jesse owens didn't need to run any faster than 10.3 seconds in 1936 because only a few countries participated in olympics and his competition wasn't that good.

    But if Jesse Owen were alive today, he might be able to run less than 9 seconds because he has to compete with Usain Bolt who is very fast.
    And guess what ?? in 1936 there's no Jamaican sprinter. So we should not taking his achievements seriously because that time was the prehistoric age of tracks Athletic because the Jamaican weren't there. If we all thinking this way then we will discredit all the achievements in the past.
    what a shame

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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    And guess what ?? in 1936 there's no Jamaican sprinter. So we should not taking his achievements seriously because that time was the prehistoric age of tracks Athletic because the Jamaican weren't there. If we all thinking this way then we will discredit all the achievements in the past.
    what a shame
    Jesse Owens? 4 gold medals in 1936? Ptui!
    He won coz my lightspeed great-great-great-great granddad didn't have any chance to participate in Berlin!!!

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    In short Rudy Hartono won those titles in the absence of Chinese players, the era when the badminton standard is so poor that it is comparable to school level today, and the fact very few players around him were able to play proper badminton.

    That is so prehistorical achievement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    In short Rudy Hartono won those titles in the absence of Chinese players, the era when the badminton standard is so poor that it is comparable to school level today, and the fact very few players around him were able to play proper badminton.

    That is so prehistorical achievement.
    School level ??? what a truly disgrace. At the time All England was consider as unofficial World Championship. Tell this also too the Malaysian and Danish to disgrace their legends like Eddie Chong and Erland Kops.
    No one say that such a "prehistorical" things except a few of negative and disgrace members of this forum.

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    Maybe one day when a new country emerge to be the powerhouse of badminton then they will look back and say that our present days is a prehistorical era because they not there already and discredit all the achievements of Lin Dan, Lee Chong Wei, Taufik Hidayat, Peter Gade, and many others. Lol

    And guess what ?? in 1936 there's no Jamaican sprinter. So we should not taking his achievements seriously because that time was the prehistoric age of tracks Athletic because the Jamaican weren't there. If we all thinking this way then we will discredit all the achievements in the past.
    what a shame

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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    School level ??? what a truly disgrace. At the time All England was consider as unofficial World Championship. Tell this also too the Malaysian and Danish to disgrace their legends like Eddie Chong and Erland Kops.
    No one say that such a "prehistorical" things except a few of negative and disgrace members of this forum.
    It's a solid fact. Did anybody commend on George Thomas's achievements since he won the most number of All England titles? Does that make him comparable to Lin Dan. Absolutely not.

    The tournament prestige is unquestionable but the standards back then were even more undeniably low.

    Had other countries have access to good coach, training and playing philosophy, these players will never be so dominant.

    The present and the OPEN era is different and more exciting than the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    Maybe one day when a new country emerge to be the powerhouse of badminton then they will look back and say that our present days is a prehistorical era because they not there already and discredit all the achievements of Lin Dan, Lee Chong Wei, Taufik Hidayat, Peter Gade, and many others. Lol
    Yes true. How could we all discredit the achievement of Rudy Hartono, Lim Swie King, Eddie Chong, Frost etc.

    They were the best and most dominant during their time. This is a great achievement no matter what changes we seen in badminton today.

    Maybe their racquets were very heavy and many people did not have access to badminton facility that time. But the fact that Rudy Hartono, Swie King, E. Chong, Frost were all able to get past all these obstacles that prevent from proper facility training etc. and set a new standard for badminton is a great achievement if you ask me. To be honest, maybe if LD was born during that time, the conditions were not favourable for him since the racquets too heavy, no electricity to practice during the night time, or not many courts available in his area etc. etc.... maybe LD couldn't even get into the national team because of these problems our past heroes faced. So their achievement stands as the greatest during their time no matter how different badminton is today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    It's a solid fact. Did anybody commend on George Thomas's achievements since he won the most number of All England titles? Does that make him comparable to Lin Dan. Absolutely not.

    The tournament prestige is unquestionable but the standards back then were even more undeniably low.

    Had other countries have access to good coach, training and playing philosophy, these players will never be so dominant.

    The present and the OPEN era is different and more exciting than the past.
    OMG

    Then we can start to questioning the biggest succes of the CHN team that clean sweep all the tittles in this olympic and all they achievements in WC, TC, UC, SC and everything else. They can do all of these because there's no challange from the others strong nation like American, South American, African and rest. Because for now we could say that the only countries that have access of the good coach, training and playing philosophy beside China are Malaysia, Denmark, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Taipei and maybe India. Then we should bring all the things you said above and ensure that every single country, each of all could access that things, and only after that anyone who could win deserve his succes without any doubt. And this should done with every single sport in the world.
    We also should put doubt with the succes of Brazillian with Pele in football 3 times WC in 58, 62 & 70. Cuban succes and dominant in Olympic boxing. All achievements in any sports from the past. All for the same reason.

    Seriously ????????

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    I no expert in badminton but I'm pretty sure during rudy time, not many people has the opportunity to play badminton. Most people busy looking for food and shelter. Those who can afford to play badminton are usually from above average rich family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SibugiChai View Post
    I no expert in badminton but I'm pretty sure during rudy time, not many people has the opportunity to play badminton. Most people busy looking for food and shelter. Those who can afford to play badminton are usually from above average rich family.
    That's what I have been saying...at that time not many people even know how to even play badminton because they have no financial aid or access to good facilities.

    Rudy Hartono is just lucky not to play against the Chinese players, have so few opponents who could actually beat him and to name a few it's not very difficult:

    Liem Swie King
    Svend Pri
    Fleming Deffs
    Muljadi

    No offense to those who lost to Hartono.

    When the Chinese came into the scene, he finally lost in his first ever official encounter to a Chinese, Luan Jin.

    That puts very much doubt in his "greatness". Also Erland Kops perhaps out of sour grapes, did mention Rudy Hartono broke his record of 7 All England titles with assistance from his Indonesian compatriots (Liem Swie King). This reminds me of Lin Dan's achievements being bashed by fanatics in the present day.

    PS: I will find that source where Erland Kops said it and post it as citation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    You got the point.
    With the circumstances in each own times, past champions like Wong Peng Soon, Eddy Choong, Erland Kops, and Rudy Hartono had same disadvantage in terms of technology, tools, knowledge, nutrition and everything else with any others players at their own time, but they did more and more than anyone to claimed their tittles and be the champion of their own era. So I don't think anyone in this forum has an excuse to turn down and discredit they achievements.



    And guess what ?? in 1936 there's no Jamaican sprinter. So we should not taking his achievements seriously because that time was the prehistoric age of tracks Athletic because the Jamaican weren't there. If we all thinking this way then we will discredit all the achievements in the past.
    what a shame
    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    It's a solid fact. Did anybody commend on George Thomas's achievements since he won the most number of All England titles? Does that make him comparable to Lin Dan. Absolutely not.

    The tournament prestige is unquestionable but the standards back then were even more undeniably low.

    Had other countries have access to good coach, training and playing philosophy, these players will never be so dominant.

    The present and the OPEN era is different and more exciting than the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    OMG

    Then we can start to questioning the biggest succes of the CHN team that clean sweep all the tittles in this olympic and all they achievements in WC, TC, UC, SC and everything else. They can do all of these because there's no challange from the others strong nation like American, South American, African and rest. Because for now we could say that the only countries that have access of the good coach, training and playing philosophy beside China are Malaysia, Denmark, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Taipei and maybe India. Then we should bring all the things you said above and ensure that every single country, each of all could access that things, and only after that anyone who could win deserve his succes without any doubt. And this should done with every single sport in the world.
    We also should put doubt with the succes of Brazillian with Pele in football 3 times WC in 58, 62 & 70. Cuban succes and dominant in Olympic boxing. All achievements in any sports from the past. All for the same reason.

    Seriously ????????
    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    That's what I have been saying...at that time not many people even know how to even play badminton because they have no financial aid or access to good facilities.

    Rudy Hartono is just lucky not to play against the Chinese players, have so few opponents who could actually beat him and to name a few it's not very difficult:

    Liem Swie King
    Svend Pri
    Fleming Deffs
    Muljadi

    No offense to those who lost to Hartono.

    When the Chinese came into the scene, he finally lost in his first ever official encounter to a Chinese, Luan Jin.

    That puts very much doubt in his "greatness". Also Erland Kops perhaps out of sour grapes, did mention Rudy Hartono broke his record of 7 All England titles with assistance from his Indonesian compatriots (Liem Swie King). This reminds me of Lin Dan's achievements being bashed by fanatics in the present day.

    PS: I will find that source where Erland Kops said it and post it as citation.
    Either you didn't read yet or ignore my previous posts.
    So with the way you think about the past game then we should doubt all the greats player from the past in any discipline of sports for the same reason. Lack of competitors and etc.
    In previous post you said about access to good coach, training and playing philosophy but in the last post you said about no financial aid or access to good facilities.

    For the Chinesse player like Hou Jiachang and Tang Xianhu, it is very sad that they could not compete in the All England and others IBF tournaments at the time, but undoubtly they are greats players too that BWF included their names in the Badminton Hall of Fame. But it shouldn't be an excuse to doubt Rudy's achievements for that reason.

    About his winning against Liem Swie King in his last tittles in 1976, yes there's controversy out there. In his autobiograpy King said that he play very poorly that when he go back to Indonesia his club owner (PB DJARUM) Budi Hartono got mad on him because he thought that King has a very good chance to win the tittles. Although King not revealed was there anyone order him to loose. Still many believe that there was an order in this match to made Rudy become the record holder all time for MS in All England. But again this controversy should not put doubt at Rudy's achievements.
    AS for Lin Dan I also doesn't agree with opinion that his achievements is helped by his compratiots. I post it in your thread : Taufik Hidayat's Attitude and Opinion about the All England (#108)

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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    Either you didn't read yet or ignore my previous posts.
    So with the way you think about the past game then we should doubt all the greats player from the past in any discipline of sports for the same reason. Lack of competitors and etc.
    In previous post you said about access to good coach, training and playing philosophy but in the last post you said about no financial aid or access to good facilities.

    For the Chinesse player like Hou Jiachang and Tang Xianhu, it is very sad that they could not compete in the All England and others IBF tournaments at the time, but undoubtly they are greats players too that BWF included their names in the Badminton Hall of Fame. But it shouldn't be an excuse to doubt Rudy's achievements for that reason.

    About his winning against Liem Swie King in his last tittles in 1976, yes there's controversy out there. In his autobiograpy King said that he play very poorly that when he go back to Indonesia his club owner (PB DJARUM) Budi Hartono got mad on him because he thought that King has a very good chance to win the tittles. Although King not revealed was there anyone order him to loose. Still many believe that there was an order in this match to made Rudy become the record holder all time for MS in All England. But again this controversy should not put doubt at Rudy's achievements.
    AS for Lin Dan I also doesn't agree with opinion that his achievements is helped by his compratiots. I post it in your thread : Taufik Hidayat's Attitude and Opinion about the All England (#108)
    Not only the All England was discussed in the controversy, even the World Championship which he won in Jakarta 1980 was a match fixed as many whisperers claimed. At that age, Hartono has been defeated constantly by Liem Swie King in training matches and other encounters. To suddenly see him beat Liem Swie King convincingly on that final and at that age, it's so controversial.

    Till today, I am sure people still wonder whether did Hartono win that World Championship genuinely because he played against a compatriot. That said, I could say the same for Zhang Ning as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    Not only the All England was discussed in the controversy, even the World Championship which he won in Jakarta 1980 was a match fixed as many whisperers claimed. At that age, Hartono has been defeated constantly by Liem Swie King in training matches and other encounters. To suddenly see him beat Liem Swie King convincingly on that final and at that age, it's so controversial.

    Till today, I am sure people still wonder whether did Hartono win that World Championship genuinely because he played against a compatriot. That said, I could say the same for Zhang Ning as well.
    You mean that Zhang Ning win to Xie Xingfang in Beijing Olympics 2008 was a fixed match also ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    You mean that Zhang Ning win to Xie Xingfang in Beijing Olympics 2008 was a fixed match also ??
    People who doubt Zhang Ning's ability at the age of 33 could say it was presented in a way so she could have good farewell match.

    The same can be said about Hartono in his last game in 1980.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    Maybe one day when a new country emerge to be the powerhouse of badminton then they will look back and say that our present days is a prehistorical era because they not there already and discredit all the achievements of Lin Dan, Lee Chong Wei, Taufik Hidayat, Peter Gade, and many others. Lol
    Very different case. BWF gives opportunities to all 5 continents to compete in Thomas / Uber Cup, by qualification round, so it means every countries has the chance to win the thropies. But for China, eventhough they was a very strong country in badminton, they don't have the chance to win the trophy. Also their players. As a result, Rudi Hartono can win AE 8 times, and INA Thomas Cup has 7 trophies. Before China joined IBF, Hou Jiachang and China Men's team can wi. 1974 Asian Games Gold Medal, Individual & Team Event. No one will doubt China's supremacy, from past to present. But Indonesia ? Surely 4 - 5 Thomas Cup trophies and Rudy's 8 AE titles only luck.
    Last edited by Fortune; 08-13-2012 at 11:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julianng View Post
    Yes true. How could we all discredit the achievement of Rudy Hartono, Lim Swie King, Eddie Chong, Frost etc.
    LSK ? I think Han Jian has better H2H records afgainst him. Frost ? If I'm not wrong, ZJH outplayed him once or twice, and maybe Yang - Yang has better H2H. Rudy ? Just ask him, where is the AG Gold in MS ? Why he was affraid to old players likes Tang and Hou ?
    Quote Originally Posted by julianng View Post
    They were the best and most dominant during their time. This is a great achievement no matter what changes we seen in badminton today.
    30 y.o. Rudi still unbeatenable at 1979 Thomas Cup. At 31, he still dare to compete and win the 1980 World Championships. Players around the world still can't beat the old Rudi. You can imagine the competition in that era ! . But when he was younger, at 25 only, he was affraid to 2 old giants from China, Tang Xianhu and Hou Jiachang hahaha
    Quote Originally Posted by julianng View Post
    Maybe their racquets were very heavy and many people did not have access to badminton facility that time. But the fact that Rudy Hartono, Swie King, E. Chong, Frost were all able to get past all these obstacles that prevent from proper facility training etc. and set a new standard for badminton is a great achievement if you ask me.
    Maybe the racquets of Tang and Hou are the same with the racquets that are used by the players in the 3rd millenium, that's why Rudy was affraid he would be slaughtered by Tang and Hou
    Quote Originally Posted by julianng View Post
    To be honest, maybe if LD was born during that time, the conditions were not favourable for him since the racquets too heavy, no electricity to practice during the night time, or not many courts available in his area etc. etc.... maybe LD couldn't even get into the national team because of these problems our past heroes faced. So their achievement stands as the greatest during their time no matter how different badminton is today.
    Maybe yes, maybe no ! It depends to how strong Hou, Tang, and the other CHN MS players that are affraid by Rudi. And if LD couldn't even get into the national team, then how about Taufik and LCW whom are far weaker than Lin Dan ?
    Last edited by Fortune; 08-13-2012 at 12:25 PM.

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