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  1. #1
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    Default Player rankings in Leagues

    I manage a set of leagues and I am trying to sort out a suitable ranking system.

    However it works my feeling is that it has to cover:

    Points for/against and the difference.
    matches played & win ratio

    I also think it needs to include a 'weight' of some description according to the division in which matches are played/point scored etc.. Generally the better players (in division 1) ought to be near the top of a ranking table, a div 4 player would find it more difficult to score in div 1.

    Anyone got any feelings/ideas/suggestions on this?

  2. #2
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    are u planning to rank them all together? as in all players in one pot, whatever divison they play in? maybe it would be easier to split the rankings into divs 1, 2, 3 etc etc?

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    I was planning that, yes. I could do them by division, but what happens when a player 'subs' up or down, does that performance count for nothing...? This is why I am looking at a weighted system.

    So (for the purposes of ranking only) a point scored in div 1 would be worth 1, a point scored in div 2 would be worth .98 maybe, so that in div 6 you might be down to .9.

    Ultimately point average and point for/against ratio would be the may deciders. Ranks would be adjusted as scoresheets were processed throughout the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lou_tennant
    I was planning that, yes. I could do them by division, but what happens when a player 'subs' up or down, does that performance count for nothing...? This is why I am looking at a weighted system.

    So (for the purposes of ranking only) a point scored in div 1 would be worth 1, a point scored in div 2 would be worth .98 maybe, so that in div 6 you might be down to .9.

    Ultimately point average and point for/against ratio would be the may deciders. Ranks would be adjusted as scoresheets were processed throughout the season.
    hehe - is it a singles league or a doubles league?

    singles leagues are obviousley easier to rank because you don't have to take into account changes in partnership.

    i have thought about doing this before - but the raw data needed is vast.. you can get match sheets which help. but you still need to plug all the data in.. This way you can use all the data.. things like average points scored per game, average points scored against a player / pair.

    while i think you can weight for division this is extremely difficult to do because it introduces a potentially unfair skew in the data since it's easy to say that your division 1 players should always be better than your division 2 players and hence weight the data accordingly - but there will be a grey area between at the top of div 2 and the bottom of div 1 where possibly similar ranked players are actually the wrong way round divisionally.

    This is a very complex problem.. basically the solution will only be as good as the amount of energy you can invest into gathering the data and processing it.

    good luck

    Coops

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    Quote Originally Posted by coops241180
    hehe - is it a singles league or a doubles league?
    Doubles - Ladies, Mens & Mixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by coops241180
    singles leagues are obviousley easier to rank because you don't have to take into account changes in partnership.

    i have thought about doing this before - but the raw data needed is vast.. you can get match sheets which help. but you still need to plug all the data in.. This way you can use all the data.. things like average points scored per game, average points scored against a player / pair.
    Raw data isn't a problem and all the calculations will be done in a Database'd Program I have been writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by coops241180
    while i think you can weight for division this is extremely difficult to do because it introduces a potentially unfair skew in the data since it's easy to say that your division 1 players should always be better than your division 2 players and hence weight the data accordingly - but there will be a grey area between at the top of div 2 and the bottom of div 1 where possibly similar ranked players are actually the wrong way round divisionally.
    There should be a 'grey' area between the bottom of div 1 and the top of div 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by coops241180
    This is a very complex problem.. basically the solution will only be as good as the amount of energy you can invest into gathering the data and processing it.

    good luck

    Coops
    It is a very complex problem. I have a good amount time and energy, I have to gather and preocess all the league data anyway - I'm the League Admin.

    Cheers Coops.

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    I'm the 1st Division (out of 3 divisions) secretary for my league, which is also doubles only.

    We rank players by percentage of games won out of games played. If there is a tie we look at percentage of points won. Players are ranked if they have played in at least half of the matches their team has played. Each team consists of 3 men and 3 ladies, playing a mix of levels and mixed doubles.

    We used to use averages of games and points per match but I argued (succesfully) for the change to percentages as one player defaulting in a match (usually due to injury) affected the performance stats of the other three players.

    I use spreadsheet with macros for my calculations. Officially we only record individual stats, but my sheet also generates paired stats.

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    Thanks for that Tomsk. I am trying to get a feel for how other clubs/counties/countries operate league rankings.

    I am also interested in hearing from league players and how they think that rankings should be done - to be fair to all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lou_tennant
    Thanks for that Tomsk. I am trying to get a feel for how other clubs/counties/countries operate league rankings.

    I am also interested in hearing from league players and how they think that rankings should be done - to be fair to all.
    hmmm, here's a thought - how abotu weighting the rankings accoring to their current ranking.. with any luck this should result in an overlap between divisions, and take into account players playing up too

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    That could work for future seasons, once I have given them a ranking for the upcoming season....

    There has really been one in the past, despite numerous players asking for it.

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    In the dutch national leagues, the following table is used to provide points for the national ranking list.
    The table is used for singles but also for a ranking in doubles and mixed together.
    1st and 2nd in the table underneath refer to the order of play within the league match : in a league match for instance 2 men's singles are played. Playing first single provides more points than 2nd. Same for ladies' singles and mixed doubles (yes two mixed doubles games are played). As only 1 men's double and 1 ladies' double is played, points for 1st are given.
    15 best results are in scope.

    Besides this scoring table, points are given for national and international tournaments (which is another table that i can post on request)
    The scoring system is active for at least 10 years in Holland with some changes. The IBF was very interested in the system and actually used it for their ranking system.

    Highest div. 1st div. 2nd div. 3rd div. 4th div.
    1st 2nd 1st 2nd 1st 2nd 1st 2nd 1st 2nd
    winner 300 240 150 120 75 60 38 30 19 15
    loser 180 144 90 72 45 36 23 18 11 9

    As you can see, a player that wins 1st single, earns more points than a player that lost second single in a higher division. Well, that IS the only way to get more points than someone in a higher division.

    As it is an open calculation, everybody can calculate its points and speculate on its position on the next listing. And yes i liked to do that ( in the old days )

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