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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    stop crying over it like we lost tony
    You don't think to some degree we did? He moved to a badminton wasteland. In this thread people are calling him one of the best doubles player of all time, and I agree. I could careless about the wins for INA, rather just being in INA and training with some of the worlds top pairs. I wish we could have seen more of him over the last few years. If he would have stayed in INA, i'm sure we would have.
    All that aside, I really admire the way he valued his future and families future. I read a servey a few years ago that said something like 80% of elite altheles would trade 15 years of their life for a gold medal. Badminton isn't life, and in a sport of children leaving their families at 12 to train, it was cool to see someone at the top come out and show it.

  2. #19
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    I didn't know if you tracked Tony Gunawan's tournament history and/or watched the videos of tournaments or not. From the videos, he was not too different a player from other elite players in the Indonesian team. But for the recent two years (2004-05), what I observed was that he has become a level higher than his old team mates, Candra Wijaya and Sigit Budiarto. At their levels, the training is just to maintain their condition; the factor that Gunawan could get one step ahead might be that he has to coach in US. I agree, it is a badminton wasteland since there is no others close to the international level other than the 2001 WC gold medal pairs. My thought is he will not get too much progress if he did stay in Indonesia and keep training. In a way, it limits the "vision". What I am trying to say is that it sets a different angle for him to comprehend the play as a coach, not just a player. An old chinese saying says "teaching helps learning"; Tony Gunawan could be a good example for badminton....

    Anyway, we cannot turn back the clock. If he stayed, he might be even better or just retire like other players, e.g. Hendrawan, etc. We will never know. :-)

    -SC

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkinJapan
    You don't think to some degree we did? He moved to a badminton wasteland. In this thread people are calling him one of the best doubles player of all time, and I agree. I could careless about the wins for INA, rather just being in INA and training with some of the worlds top pairs. I wish we could have seen more of him over the last few years. If he would have stayed in INA, i'm sure we would have.
    All that aside, I really admire the way he valued his future and families future. I read a servey a few years ago that said something like 80% of elite altheles would trade 15 years of their life for a gold medal. Badminton isn't life, and in a sport of children leaving their families at 12 to train, it was cool to see someone at the top come out and show it.
    Last edited by scchang; 11-18-2005 at 12:18 PM.

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkinJapan
    You don't think to some degree we did? He moved to a badminton wasteland. In this thread people are calling him one of the best doubles player of all time, and I agree. I could careless about the wins for INA, rather just being in INA and training with some of the worlds top pairs. I wish we could have seen more of him over the last few years. If he would have stayed in INA, i'm sure we would have.
    All that aside, I really admire the way he valued his future and families future. I read a servey a few years ago that said something like 80% of elite altheles would trade 15 years of their life for a gold medal. Badminton isn't life, and in a sport of children leaving their families at 12 to train, it was cool to see someone at the top come out and show it.
    well, people who're crying over tony move to US only concern about themselves(ie selfish) and not on tony's behalf nor his life nor badminton itself. If u had read my earlier posts, i already had stated tony's is the best MD individual that i have ever seen. This was before 2005 WC, when i saw a blurry 45 to 60 seconds video of tony playing MD soon after he step onto US soil. I bet u dont disagree with me that great MD player is great strategist. Then ask yourself why are some people cry and disrespectful of his strategic move (ex. INA lost tony and tony is going to a badminton wasteland blah blah blah). If u claim tony is the best MD player, u should also respect his decision.

  4. #21
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    wow Tony is not only a great double or mix player.. he is also a great singles player!!! Check it out... he made it to final in mens singles OCBC Yonex International 2005 http://www.worldbadminton.net/Portal...p?pnumber=3181

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simp84
    wow Tony is not only a great double or mix player.. he is also a great singles player!!! Check it out... he made it to final in mens singles OCBC Yonex International 2005 http://www.worldbadminton.net/Portal...p?pnumber=3181
    All double players play single until they are 16-17 before they switch their focus on Double or Mixed Event .....so fundamentally they are accustommed to play single too.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by harimau
    All double players play single until they are 16-17 before they switch their focus on Double or Mixed Event .....so fundamentally they are accustommed to play single too.
    I know.. however u dont see many pro double players out there reaching finals in single events u know

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkinJapan
    You don't think to some degree we did? He moved to a badminton wasteland. In this thread people are calling him one of the best doubles player of all time, and I agree. I could careless about the wins for INA, rather just being in INA and training with some of the worlds top pairs. I wish we could have seen more of him over the last few years. If he would have stayed in INA, i'm sure we would have.
    All that aside, I really admire the way he valued his future and families future. I read a servey a few years ago that said something like 80% of elite altheles would trade 15 years of their life for a gold medal. Badminton isn't life, and in a sport of children leaving their families at 12 to train, it was cool to see someone at the top come out and show it.
    he went to usa for education reason...

    you can see successfull indo badminton players, like taufik, chandra/sigit, ricky/rexy, susy susanti, they live prosperous and they're rich enough

    anyone can live and have good family future from badminton if they are successfull badminton players

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania
    I personally think its a good for Tony and Halim to remain in the U.S. This way, they can actually promote the sport to the public over there. So, they can pursue his studies and play the sports that they like at the same time. Not to mention the thrill of winning again, this time as the underdogs (since their ranking is low). Killing three birds with one stone

    I am happy to see them scoring the unlikely upsets.
    haha, killing 3birds with one stone? isnt that a bit too much?

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    well, people who're crying over tony move to US only concern about themselves(ie selfish) and not on tony's behalf nor his life nor badminton itself.
    philosophically you are streaching too far, I am by no means an ethical egotist. Eg. People who buy nikes only are concerned with themselves and not the children who make them.

    Tony is a great badminton stratagist. Yes.
    Does that carry forward into many other realms?
    Bobby Fisher is a great stratigist. Is Bobby a great doubles player? Is Tony a great chess player?

    "If u claim tony is the best MD player, u should also respect his decision"

    this statement is an utter fallacy.

  10. #27
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    that being said I agree with tony's choice. Badminton is not life.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkinJapan
    Badminton is not life.

    Ohhhhh! Them's fightin' words!

    In all seriousness, I'd say for most of us here, "Badminton is a part of life."

  12. #29
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    We don't live for badminton. Badminton is just a sport that make our lives more healthier and interesting. Badminton does gives us happiness and sadness, enemies and friends as well. Our life is not all about badminton.
    The statements are not on behalf of the PROS and those people who make Badminton as their lively hood.

  13. #30
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    The pros play for a living and us BF'ers play for its fanaticism.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkinJapan
    philosophically you are streaching too far, I am by no means an ethical egotist. Eg. People who buy nikes only are concerned with themselves and not the children who make them.

    Tony is a great badminton stratagist. Yes.
    Does that carry forward into many other realms?
    Bobby Fisher is a great stratigist. Is Bobby a great doubles player? Is Tony a great chess player?

    "If u claim tony is the best MD player, u should also respect his decision"

    this statement is an utter fallacy.
    u just reveal to us all your logic fallacy and misunderstanding on application of logic. U had twisted a valid logic of mine into something unrecognizable.

    Ex.#1

    A to B, B is to C, then C follows from A, a valid statement
    then u say, wait, i've found a case where C is to X, with that u went to
    invalidate my first statement and say A is to X, not C.

    Ex #2

    Weight lifter Mr123 is the greatest weight lifter, he won numerous medals and titles. He has the best strength to body weight ratio, like 400 lbs/200 lbs, a Lift to Body Weight Ratio (LTBR) of 2.

    then you MarkinJapan says, wait, i know something who has much better LTBR, an ant. For a body weight of .005 g, it can lift ..05 g, a LTBR of 10. By your logic, an ant should exceed Mr123 lifting capability.

    The point is u cant apply strategic theory from badminton to chess and then reverse it. Thiefs, politicans, wolves, general and commanders are all great strategists, you can't discredit tony's decision because tony isnt a supreme general, commander, thief, politican or a wolf. U just cant do that.
    Last edited by cooler; 11-19-2005 at 04:17 PM.

  15. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    Then ask yourself why are some people cry and disrespectful of his strategic move (ex. INA lost tony and tony is going to a badminton wasteland blah blah blah). If u claim tony is the best MD player, u should also respect his decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    u just reveal to us all your logic fallacy and misunderstanding on application of logic. U had twisted a valid logic of mine into something unrecognizable.
    Cooler, what in the world are you talking about?

    I made two statements.
    1. Tony is a great badminton player
    2. Bobby is a great chess player.

    I asked three retorical questions.
    1. Does stratigic awareness in one GAME, transfer to another. (no)
    2. Is Tony a great chess player BECAUSE he is a great badminton player. (no)
    3. Is Bobby a great badminton player BECAUSE he is a great chess player. (no)

    ALL I said is that just because tony is a good badminton player it does not give him the innate ability to make good choices. In any other game or in life itself.

    do you agree or disagree with that? Because in the above statement you disagree, and that is the only perverted logic in this post.

  16. #33
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    OK -- this is getting silly. If it gets a little more silly posts are going to start to disappear.

  17. #34
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    hehe, i bet indonesia is pissed now

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