User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 18 to 34 of 38
  1. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    213
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75
    The pros train with weighted vests, so it should be fine. It's the ankle weights that will do long term damage to the joints as they alter the way you move.
    Sorry cappy but you're dead wrong. The weight vest *will* put more stress on *both* knees and ankles.

    The pros make this "sacrifice" to gain strenght and speed.

    Weight vests should ideally only be used in water, since then it shouldn't be any landing=compression stress on the joints.

    /mats

  2. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,874
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wirre
    Sorry cappy but you're dead wrong. The weight vest *will* put more stress on *both* knees and ankles.

    The pros make this "sacrifice" to gain strenght and speed.

    Weight vests should ideally only be used in water, since then it shouldn't be any landing=compression stress on the joints.

    /mats
    But if you use it in water the benefit of it would diminish. Alternatively, it can be used on sand. Also, you can first build up more muscles to reduce the overall effect of the stress on your knees and ankles.

  3. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,511
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Wirre,

    Those vests don't stress the pros as much comparing to amateurs because they already have the fundamentals ingrained in them. When they move the proper way, there's less stress on the joints as it doesn't change the way they move, they just got heavier momentarily. Damage to the joints happens due to the change in gait, not because of the person's weight. Ankle weights, on the other hand, do change the gait.

    So really the weighted vest do strengthen their muscles. It really isn't that much of a 'sacrifice' when we're talking about professionals using them. Now for amateurs who started late or are very young, they probably do better to work on their footworks and lower leg muscles. But I won't rule out adopting the vest as training tool. Also some of those vests could be altered for progressive resistance training.

    Quote Originally Posted by wirre
    Sorry cappy but you're dead wrong. The weight vest *will* put more stress on *both* knees and ankles.

    The pros make this "sacrifice" to gain strenght and speed.

    Weight vests should ideally only be used in water, since then it shouldn't be any landing=compression stress on the joints.

    /mats

  4. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,511
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have yet to see anybody putting on weighted jacket in the water for resistance training. Doesn't really make much sense when the water is the resistance. The weight would make it worse cuz now you'll be running barefooted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    But if you use it in water the benefit of it would diminish. Alternatively, it can be used on sand. Also, you can first build up more muscles to reduce the overall effect of the stress on your knees and ankles.

  5. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    3,966
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    so would it be wise for a 16-year old not-so-bulky guy liek me to use/get/make one?
    how heavy should it be? i heard somebody saying 2,5%-10% of your bodyweight

    so that would be 14 lbs for me max, 3lbs min....

    should I do shadow drills (quick an dintensive, 30s max?) and multiple shuttle feeds to all for corners..or just live with that vest one?

  6. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    213
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nope!

    The stress I'm talking about comes from compression due to more weight. This cannot be prevented, amateurs and pros alike. I didn't quantify the "sacrifice", just pointed out that everyone will have to do it, no exceptions.

    Weight vests in water is a very common way for rehabilitation and extra strenght training. What you do is to jump (not run) to train the explosivity. But since there isn't going to be any landing with compression (water will make resistance both ways) it is very easy on spine, knees and ankles.

    Barefooted is good :-) If there is no need for grip or prevention against tearing of skin it would in most cases be prefered.

    A better way would probably be to find a way to use rubber bands as resistance. Then you would neither add more weight, nor change gait. "Just" need to be stronger (and hopefully more explosive) to reach the shuttle.

    /mats


    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75
    Wirre,

    Those vests don't stress the pros as much comparing to amateurs because they already have the fundamentals ingrained in them. When they move the proper way, there's less stress on the joints as it doesn't change the way they move, they just got heavier momentarily. Damage to the joints happens due to the change in gait, not because of the person's weight. Ankle weights, on the other hand, do change the gait.

    So really the weighted vest do strengthen their muscles. It really isn't that much of a 'sacrifice' when we're talking about professionals using them. Now for amateurs who started late or are very young, they probably do better to work on their footworks and lower leg muscles. But I won't rule out adopting the vest as training tool. Also some of those vests could be altered for progressive resistance training.

  7. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    3,966
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wirre
    Nope!

    The stress I'm talking about comes from compression due to more weight. This cannot be prevented, amateurs and pros alike. I didn't quantify the "sacrifice", just pointed out that everyone will have to do it, no exceptions.

    Weight vests in water is a very common way for rehabilitation and extra strenght training. What you do is to jump (not run) to train the explosivity. But since there isn't going to be any landing with compression (water will make resistance both ways) it is very easy on spine, knees and ankles.

    Barefooted is good :-) If there is no need for grip or prevention against tearing of skin it would in most cases be prefered.

    A better way would probably be to find a way to use rubber bands as resistance. Then you would neither add more weight, nor change gait. "Just" need to be stronger (and hopefully more explosive) to reach the shuttle.

    /mats
    you shoudl rememebr that they don't double up ther body-weight with such vests. for edurance traing 10% of your body weight is recommended...so If you weigh 65kg, you'd then weigh 71,5 kg...not really a bonebreakign weight. and when upped gradually it's not so bad..i think

  8. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,511
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Dunno about you, but people tend get stronger to doing resistance program not weaker. Also I think weight vest in water for rehabitation address to the issue of different bouyancy in the individuals rather than being part of rehab, as some people are naturally more bouyant than others... can't jog in water if you're constantly floating.

    Given the fact that joints will eventually wear out, I won't worry so much about damage from compression as much as strengthening the muscles around it. If you wanna avoid compression stress, don't running downhill at full speed. Doing footwork around the court with extra weight evenly distributed to your torso is fine as it is more controlled.

    Barefoot is not good, depending on what you do. Walking is ok, but definitely not for running. If you're talking about avoiding compression stress on the joints, then running in water with a heavy vest will definitely give you what you wanted to avoid in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by wirre
    Nope!

    The stress I'm talking about comes from compression due to more weight. This cannot be prevented, amateurs and pros alike. I didn't quantify the "sacrifice", just pointed out that everyone will have to do it, no exceptions.

    Weight vests in water is a very common way for rehabilitation and extra strenght training. What you do is to jump (not run) to train the explosivity. But since there isn't going to be any landing with compression (water will make resistance both ways) it is very easy on spine, knees and ankles.

    Barefooted is good :-) If there is no need for grip or prevention against tearing of skin it would in most cases be prefered.

    A better way would probably be to find a way to use rubber bands as resistance. Then you would neither add more weight, nor change gait. "Just" need to be stronger (and hopefully more explosive) to reach the shuttle.

    /mats

  9. #26
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Malaysian Citizen of the World
    Posts
    13,157
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The old method would be run in the sand which the method is still being used today. Not nessasary have to wear heavy vests. In terms of speed , some players now go for plyometrics trainning for speed , agility and explosiveness.

  10. #27
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    dcbadminton.net
    Posts
    12,202
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ants
    The old method would be run in the sand which the method is still being used today.
    Yes, sand is good but brutal.

  11. #28
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tupai (from Msia)
    Posts
    750
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I thought I saw brazil playing with this huge rubber ban stuff, that suppose to increase reflex and speed???

  12. #29
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    213
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75
    Given the fact that joints will eventually wear out, I won't worry so much about damage from compression as much as strengthening the muscles around it. If you wanna avoid compression stress, don't running downhill at full speed. Doing footwork around the court with extra weight evenly distributed to your torso is fine as it is more controlled.

    Barefoot is not good, depending on what you do. Walking is ok, but definitely not for running. If you're talking about avoiding compression stress on the joints, then running in water with a heavy vest will definitely give you what you wanted to avoid in the first place.
    Wrong wrong and wrong

    Well not totally but the increased stress by compression isn't to be taken light upon. I personally know people (some fairly well trained athletes) who put on too much body weight (=muscles) for their own good. Caused pain in spine, hips and knees. Reduced weight and the problems was reduced, not totally gone since the damage was already done.

    Indeed you should strengthen your muscles totally agree, but the increased muscles *cannot* do squat about the compression only help stabilise so you are not twisting the joints. And to gain that extra muscles you can do other exercises which don't mean any compression.

    Barefoot is most of the time best. If you don't need the grip or protection of skin then your body would often be the best absorbant. Many of the systems used by the shoe mfgr is contraproductive to the bodys own in the long run (sic!).

    Yes running in water is good totally agree, but it doesn't give that explicit training of explosivness as jumping would. More for the body and legs in general and also the condition/stamina. Rellly good for your torso, easy to try different positions excersising back and abdomnen stability. Doesn't hurt if you tip over I like training in water.....but not to swim (terribly bad).

    /mats

  13. #30
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,511
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Running barefooted on floors is not advisable. As the feet is never meant for running hard unyielding surface area. Sand, yes but I won't risk my own feet running on hardwood courts. You will risk a collapse arch if you do. If you think barefeet is so great, why don't you try playing baddy w/o shoes? Compression itself, like aging, is unavoidable. Even the act of playing baddy degrades your joints. If you fear the effects of compression so much, you should just go sedentary.

    Quote Originally Posted by wirre
    Wrong wrong and wrong

    Well not totally but the increased stress by compression isn't to be taken light upon. I personally know people (some fairly well trained athletes) who put on too much body weight (=muscles) for their own good. Caused pain in spine, hips and knees. Reduced weight and the problems was reduced, not totally gone since the damage was already done.

    Indeed you should strengthen your muscles totally agree, but the increased muscles *cannot* do squat about the compression only help stabilise so you are not twisting the joints. And to gain that extra muscles you can do other exercises which don't mean any compression.

    Barefoot is most of the time best. If you don't need the grip or protection of skin then your body would often be the best absorbant. Many of the systems used by the shoe mfgr is contraproductive to the bodys own in the long run (sic!).

    Yes running in water is good totally agree, but it doesn't give that explicit training of explosivness as jumping would. More for the body and legs in general and also the condition/stamina. Rellly good for your torso, easy to try different positions excersising back and abdomnen stability. Doesn't hurt if you tip over I like training in water.....but not to swim (terribly bad).

    /mats

  14. #31
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    3,966
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    is compression really sucha big deal? the maximum weight they're adding is 20lbs....10lbs for playign baddy....
    I take it my joints shoudl hold while playing baddy if I weigh 73kgs....

  15. #32
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    213
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Now you start to sound silly instead of discussing the topic.

    Why, oh why don't I play w/o shoes??? You should be able to figure out that yourself, I've said it several times already.

    Compression certainly is unavoidable. But what good is there in increasing it if not necessary? I've shown why it's not good, also suggested alternatives how to avoid and still getting useful training.

    I do not FEAR compression, only points out that your "its fine since X does it" isn't any good generalisation. Many of the excersises the elit athletes do are on the edge (sometimes over) what is healty for the body. Thus they become better trained for their purpose but also injured in ways a "normal" human ever would.


    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75
    If you think barefeet is so great, why don't you try playing baddy w/o shoes? Compression itself, like aging, is unavoidable. Even the act of playing baddy degrades your joints. If you fear the effects of compression so much, you should just go sedentary.

  16. #33
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    213
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jerby
    is compression really sucha big deal? the maximum weight they're adding is 20lbs....10lbs for playign baddy....
    I take it my joints shoudl hold while playing baddy if I weigh 73kgs....
    No it isn't "such a big deal". But you should know what you do, and I know from what you've written in this topic that in this case you don't.

    Your joints would most probably hold for double that weight, still I wouldn't advice you to gain that much......

    I'd say that you (at your age) should keep to skipping ropes and try to increase your speed/footwork in the *most kind* way to your body.

    Also look at other sports which defer to footwork ie fencing, boxing and dancing. Try to pick up a little here a little there.......

    If someone is as young as you are I'd say that you should try to find excersises to gain strength (muscles) and explosivity with *resistance* not weight in mind. Check with the girls (and boys) doing a lot of aerobics with rubberbands.

    /mats

  17. #34
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    3,966
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wirre
    No it isn't "such a big deal". But you should know what you do, and I know from what you've written in this topic that in this case you don't.

    Your joints would most probably hold for double that weight, still I wouldn't advice you to gain that much......

    I'd say that you (at your age) should keep to skipping ropes and try to increase your speed/footwork in the *most kind* way to your body.

    Also look at other sports which defer to footwork ie fencing, boxing and dancing. Try to pick up a little here a little there.......

    If someone is as young as you are I'd say that you should try to find excersises to gain strength (muscles) and explosivity with *resistance* not weight in mind. Check with the girls (and boys) doing a lot of aerobics with rubberbands.

    /mats
    thanks for the advice,
    and I'm sorry "such a big deal" might've sounded sarcastic. it really wasn't

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. speed/radar gun for speed measurement
    By hesho in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 7
    : 01-06-2013, 07:48 AM
  2. WTB: Apacs Nano 9000 Speed / Pro Ace Nano 90 Speed
    By Wan Njang in forum Buy & Sell - Read the rules sticky before you post
    Replies: 0
    : 03-25-2009, 04:04 AM
  3. Replies: 10
    : 05-27-2005, 07:43 AM
  4. Any suggestions to train for speed
    By Pebulutangkis in forum Techniques / Training
    Replies: 21
    : 11-10-2003, 05:23 PM
  5. Replies: 14
    : 10-03-2003, 01:51 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •