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01-03-2006, 06:50 PM #18Originally Posted by cappy75
The pros make this "sacrifice" to gain strenght and speed.
Weight vests should ideally only be used in water, since then it shouldn't be any landing=compression stress on the joints.
01-03-2006, 10:07 PM #19Originally Posted by wirre
01-04-2006, 03:31 AM #20
Those vests don't stress the pros as much comparing to amateurs because they already have the fundamentals ingrained in them. When they move the proper way, there's less stress on the joints as it doesn't change the way they move, they just got heavier momentarily. Damage to the joints happens due to the change in gait, not because of the person's weight. Ankle weights, on the other hand, do change the gait.
So really the weighted vest do strengthen their muscles. It really isn't that much of a 'sacrifice' when we're talking about professionals using them. Now for amateurs who started late or are very young, they probably do better to work on their footworks and lower leg muscles. But I won't rule out adopting the vest as training tool. Also some of those vests could be altered for progressive resistance training.
Originally Posted by wirre
01-04-2006, 03:39 AM #21
I have yet to see anybody putting on weighted jacket in the water for resistance training. Doesn't really make much sense when the water is the resistance. The weight would make it worse cuz now you'll be running barefooted.
Originally Posted by Iwan
01-04-2006, 03:46 AM #22
so would it be wise for a 16-year old not-so-bulky guy liek me to use/get/make one?
how heavy should it be? i heard somebody saying 2,5%-10% of your bodyweight
so that would be 14 lbs for me max, 3lbs min....
should I do shadow drills (quick an dintensive, 30s max?) and multiple shuttle feeds to all for corners..or just live with that vest one?
01-04-2006, 09:43 AM #23
The stress I'm talking about comes from compression due to more weight. This cannot be prevented, amateurs and pros alike. I didn't quantify the "sacrifice", just pointed out that everyone will have to do it, no exceptions.
Weight vests in water is a very common way for rehabilitation and extra strenght training. What you do is to jump (not run) to train the explosivity. But since there isn't going to be any landing with compression (water will make resistance both ways) it is very easy on spine, knees and ankles.
Barefooted is good :-) If there is no need for grip or prevention against tearing of skin it would in most cases be prefered.
A better way would probably be to find a way to use rubber bands as resistance. Then you would neither add more weight, nor change gait. "Just" need to be stronger (and hopefully more explosive) to reach the shuttle.
Originally Posted by cappy75
01-04-2006, 11:48 AM #24Originally Posted by wirre
01-04-2006, 10:24 PM #25
Dunno about you, but people tend get stronger to doing resistance program not weaker. Also I think weight vest in water for rehabitation address to the issue of different bouyancy in the individuals rather than being part of rehab, as some people are naturally more bouyant than others... can't jog in water if you're constantly floating.
Given the fact that joints will eventually wear out, I won't worry so much about damage from compression as much as strengthening the muscles around it. If you wanna avoid compression stress, don't running downhill at full speed. Doing footwork around the court with extra weight evenly distributed to your torso is fine as it is more controlled.
Barefoot is not good, depending on what you do. Walking is ok, but definitely not for running. If you're talking about avoiding compression stress on the joints, then running in water with a heavy vest will definitely give you what you wanted to avoid in the first place.
Originally Posted by wirre
01-05-2006, 04:54 AM #26
The old method would be run in the sand which the method is still being used today. Not nessasary have to wear heavy vests. In terms of speed , some players now go for plyometrics trainning for speed , agility and explosiveness.
01-06-2006, 12:32 PM #27Originally Posted by ants
01-10-2006, 03:32 AM #28
I thought I saw brazil playing with this huge rubber ban stuff, that suppose to increase reflex and speed???
01-18-2006, 10:28 AM #29Originally Posted by cappy75
Well not totally but the increased stress by compression isn't to be taken light upon. I personally know people (some fairly well trained athletes) who put on too much body weight (=muscles) for their own good. Caused pain in spine, hips and knees. Reduced weight and the problems was reduced, not totally gone since the damage was already done.
Indeed you should strengthen your muscles totally agree, but the increased muscles *cannot* do squat about the compression only help stabilise so you are not twisting the joints. And to gain that extra muscles you can do other exercises which don't mean any compression.
Barefoot is most of the time best. If you don't need the grip or protection of skin then your body would often be the best absorbant. Many of the systems used by the shoe mfgr is contraproductive to the bodys own in the long run (sic!).
Yes running in water is good totally agree, but it doesn't give that explicit training of explosivness as jumping would. More for the body and legs in general and also the condition/stamina. Rellly good for your torso, easy to try different positions excersising back and abdomnen stability. Doesn't hurt if you tip over I like training in water.....but not to swim (terribly bad).
01-18-2006, 10:05 PM #30
Running barefooted on floors is not advisable. As the feet is never meant for running hard unyielding surface area. Sand, yes but I won't risk my own feet running on hardwood courts. You will risk a collapse arch if you do. If you think barefeet is so great, why don't you try playing baddy w/o shoes? Compression itself, like aging, is unavoidable. Even the act of playing baddy degrades your joints. If you fear the effects of compression so much, you should just go sedentary.
Originally Posted by wirre
01-19-2006, 08:40 AM #31
is compression really sucha big deal? the maximum weight they're adding is 20lbs....10lbs for playign baddy....
I take it my joints shoudl hold while playing baddy if I weigh 73kgs....
01-24-2006, 08:27 AM #32
Now you start to sound silly instead of discussing the topic.
Why, oh why don't I play w/o shoes??? You should be able to figure out that yourself, I've said it several times already.
Compression certainly is unavoidable. But what good is there in increasing it if not necessary? I've shown why it's not good, also suggested alternatives how to avoid and still getting useful training.
I do not FEAR compression, only points out that your "its fine since X does it" isn't any good generalisation. Many of the excersises the elit athletes do are on the edge (sometimes over) what is healty for the body. Thus they become better trained for their purpose but also injured in ways a "normal" human ever would.
Originally Posted by cappy75
01-24-2006, 08:56 AM #33Originally Posted by jerby
Your joints would most probably hold for double that weight, still I wouldn't advice you to gain that much......
I'd say that you (at your age) should keep to skipping ropes and try to increase your speed/footwork in the *most kind* way to your body.
Also look at other sports which defer to footwork ie fencing, boxing and dancing. Try to pick up a little here a little there.......
If someone is as young as you are I'd say that you should try to find excersises to gain strength (muscles) and explosivity with *resistance* not weight in mind. Check with the girls (and boys) doing a lot of aerobics with rubberbands.
01-24-2006, 10:19 AM #34Originally Posted by wirre
and I'm sorry "such a big deal" might've sounded sarcastic. it really wasn't
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