Pause in the serve

**coops241180** · 12-12-2005, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by merlin

Lets add something here:

My understanding is that it is ok to pause after a backswing.

However,

if that is your style, you have to do it the same way all the time. If you elect to do a serve without pausing (hoping to catch an opponent off guard), then you will be faulted the next time you re-introduce a pause.

Thoughts / comments?

you couldn't be faulted because your serve is within the laws, but your opponent could put his hand up to say he wasn't ready and you'd play a let..

Coops

**It'sMeMeMe** · 12-12-2005, 04:41 AM

well i think i understand your point.

however, it still won't solve my problem

we in the badminton club come to the gym for badminton practice, to have fun

well just because he and his partner kept losing to us for the past several weeks is what probably cause him to do this (finding ppl's 'mistakes')

and i come to practice wouldn't want to have an argument with him everytime as are all of you don't you think

so i would follow what he wants, a k a serve forehand in doubles game..

so, anybody has a suggestion to give me on how to handle this guy?
for me, it's not a big deal coz i play single too but the other players have been complaining to me too regarding this and i don't know what to tell them..

ty again

**coops241180** · 12-12-2005, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by It'sMeMeMe

well i think i understand your point.

however, it still won't solve my problem

we in the badminton club come to the gym for badminton practice, to have fun

well just because he and his partner kept losing to us for the past several weeks is what probably cause him to do this (finding ppl's 'mistakes')

and i come to practice wouldn't want to have an argument with him everytime as are all of you don't you think

so i would follow what he wants, a k a serve forehand in doubles game..

so, anybody has a suggestion to give me on how to handle this guy?
for me, it's not a big deal coz i play single too but the other players have been complaining to me too regarding this and i don't know what to tell them..

ty again

tell them to read the rules - or in fact - tell them to point out which rule in the book you are breaking...

if they can't - then ask them what they are complaining about.

IF you are making a fault, then it is better to understand exactly what the fault is and how it is a fault so that you can correct it.

Hope this helps

Coops

**jnrgirl02** · 12-12-2005, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by rtp12

Another question on the short serve.
Where exactly is your waist?
Is it he racket head or the shuttle
that has to below the waist?

If not mistaken anything below your elbow is legal ( something that the serving umpire can see and use it as a guide). The whole shuttle shall be below the server's waist ( Below the Elbow) at the istant of being hit by the server's racket.

The movement of the server's racket must flow continually after the start of the service unit the service is delivered without any pause. You can vary the speed of service slow-fast/ fast-slow BUT cannot pause. Any pause movement is consider illegal.

**dpc1l** · 12-12-2005, 07:31 AM

Below your elbow? Do you mean where your elbows would be when your arms are hanging by your sides? Otherwise it doesn't seem to make sense

**coops241180** · 12-12-2005, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by dpc1l

Below your elbow? Do you mean where your elbows would be when your arms are hanging by your sides? Otherwise it doesn't seem to make sense

obviously.....

otherwise i'm holding mine above my head

i quite like the elbow one because its more visible than the lowest point of the ribcage..

Coops

**dpc1l** · 12-12-2005, 07:44 AM

Sorry, it's just that a guy I played recently insisted that his serve was legal because it was below his elbow, but he was hitting it just below shoulder height.

I couldn't figure out where he had got that information, but now it makes sense. It's really easy to see where the waist is!

**CWB001** · 12-12-2005, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by dpc1l

Sorry, it's just that a guy I played recently insisted that his serve was legal because it was below his elbow, but he was hitting it just below shoulder height.

I couldn't figure out where he had got that information, but now it makes sense. It's really easy to see where the waist is!

I understand that some countries have a locally-authorised interpretation of the law that say - for convenience use the level of the elbow to indicate the top of the waist.

It is only an interpretation, though. The law talks only about the waist, which is normally agreed to be below the level of the bottom rib, and the elbow is, strictly speaking, irrelevant. Elbow height and bottom rib do not always coincide.

**coops241180** · 12-12-2005, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by CWB001

Elbow height and bottom rib do not always coincide.

true true, but until shirts start being seethru i defy any referee to tell me exactly where the lowest point of my ribcage is...

in my opinion the elbow is a good guideline, and if a player wishes to argue with me i will insist they lift their shirt so i can see where the lowest point of their ribcage is..

Coops

**twobeer** · 12-12-2005, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by coops241180

true true, but until shirts start being seethru i defy any referee to tell me exactly where the lowest point of my ribcage is...

in my opinion the elbow is a good guideline, and if a player wishes to argue with me i will insist they lift their shirt so i can see where the lowest point of their ribcage is..

Coops

If it is the beatiful player I wouldn't mention the elbow option at all

**coops241180** · 12-12-2005, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by twobeer

If it is the beatiful player I wouldn't mention the elbow option at all

hell, if all the players were beautiful i'm sure see thru shirts would be the norm.. either that or shirts would be totally unnecessary..

if the player were beautiful you could insist they took the shirt off so you could see the ribs all the time

**Gollum** · 12-12-2005, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by It'sMeMeMe

problem is, i can't argue with him because in the law itself (item 9.4), they never mention backswing at all. so what in the world can i do about this? anybody? i have no proof to give him that the backswing is legal

You don't need proof: the burden of proof is on him.

If you examine the logic of your statement, you can see how absurd it is. By the same logic, he can fault you for anything whatsoever. For example:

Him: "What did you have for lunch today?"
You: "Noodles"
Him: "Sorry, but that's against the laws of badminton. It's a fault; we win the rally."
You: "That's not a fault! I'm allowed to eat noodles!"
Him: "It's not in the laws. Show me the law that allows you to eat noodles!"
You: "I guess you're right. Your point."
Him: "By the way, I ate chicken for lunch so we get an extra five points"

**silentheart** · 12-12-2005, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by coops241180

hell, if all the players were beautiful i'm sure see thru shirts would be the norm.. either that or shirts would be totally unnecessary..

if the player were beautiful you could insist they took the shirt off so you could see the ribs all the time

Guys, I think the joke is funny but some might not like it.

Anyway, I find using elbow as measurement is a big issue because player who use backhand serve often lift their arms up and forward. By the way, I think IBF measure the player before match and put a visible tape on the shirt to indicate the legal serve. Just a joke....

**coops241180** · 12-12-2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by silentheart

Guys, I think the joke is funny but some might not like it.

Anyway, I find using elbow as measurement is a big issue because player who use backhand serve often lift their arms up and forward. By the way, I think IBF measure the player before match and put a visible tape on the shirt to indicate the legal serve. Just a joke....

my apologies - your right, this is slightly rude..

the elbow measurement is taken when the elbows are by the players sides - not when raised up. usually the service judge will watch a player while knocking up or some other time before the match begins in order to get an idea in their mind where the imaginary line for service should be.

Coops

**wood_22_chuck** · 12-12-2005, 02:15 PM

I was making a theoretical statement, to demonstrate:

not-B therefore not-A

instead of an actual statement. Gollum's illustration was more amusing though.

-dave

Originally Posted by CWB001

Interesting logic, but I'm not sure I follow you. I agree with your fallacy, but where do you get the idea that there are no backswings in badminton?

A backswing is allowed in the serve and it may be stopped dead with a pause before the forward movement of the racquet provided there is no bounce, or resumed backswing once the serve has started with a forward movement.

**Pete LSD** · 12-12-2005, 02:55 PM

LOGIC 101 - how abstract

Originally Posted by wood_22_chuck

I was making a theoretical statement, to demonstrate:

not-B therefore not-A

instead of an actual statement. Gollum's illustration was more amusing though.

-dave

**magdrury** · 12-12-2005, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by j_e_thompson

9.1.5 the whole shuttle shall be below the server’s waist at the instant of being hit by the server’s racket;

9.1.6 the shaft of the server’s racket at the instant of hitting the shuttle shall be pointing in a downward direction to such an extent that the whole of the head of the racket is discernibly below the whole of the server’s hand holding the racket as in Diagram D;
9.1.7 the movement of the server’s racket must continue forwards from the start of the service (Law 9.4) until the service is delivered;

9.4 Once the players have taken their positions, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service.

Correct me if I'm wrong (everyone else usually does), but did I read somewhere that the waist is generally accepted to be the bottom rib?

John

Thank you for printing out the rules. It helps so much and I think that kind of service is legal.