Thread: New scoring format
01-18-2006, 12:47 AM #324
and if they want TV audiences to watch badminton more, how 'bout this...
lol. if TV audiences see 'em playing i guess that'll hold their attention.
01-18-2006, 12:50 AM #325Originally Posted by Dandirom
IBF can use people like u
01-18-2006, 01:05 AM #326Originally Posted by Dandirom
01-18-2006, 01:55 AM #327Originally Posted by Dandirom
01-18-2006, 03:33 AM #328Originally Posted by seven
i think it's easier to televise tennis becuse the games height is negligible.. you don't need to show the height the a high serve goes too - or how tight to the top of a net a serve or a smash / drop is..
in tennis the interesting bits for spectators are the speed of the serve, the length of the baselines and the whether passing shots are successful or not..
in my opinion there is no appreciation for how fast the players travel, it is more to do with the reactions of the players at the net and the power of the player at the back whether he/she be serving or hitting baseline-baseline / passing shots..
drop shots are a applauded when they come off in tennis - but they are extremely difficult to perform with the spin on the ball and when they don't come off the player is slated for playing the wrong shot..
ps - this thread is about the new scoring system right? :
01-18-2006, 03:40 AM #329Originally Posted by Dandirom
01-18-2006, 10:26 AM #330Originally Posted by coops241180
01-22-2006, 10:59 PM #331
I have to return to this thread because of what I saw on TV last night (Singapore time) the live telecast of the Birmingham AE Finals and the two valid points proffered by the IBF when it proposed a change to a shorter 3x21 rally point scoring system.
The World No.1, Lin Dan, almost collapsed out of the finals when his legs gave way after a jumpsmash thrown at Lee Hyun Il. Even before the match both his legs were taped at the knees and thighs, something not seen in his previous matches. The slow-motion of his fall showed both his ankles bending in an awkward position. Luckily he did not seem to suffer any fracture as he managed to get up and walk out of court for medical attention. It appeared that it was his left knee that had weakened considerably and that part had to be bolstered subsequently by a knee guard.
Actually, the inevitable had to come. He spent a total of 380 min or more than 6 hours before this final meeting with LHI. The breakdown is as follows:
R1 v Jang Young-Soo (Kor) 15-5, 9-15, 15-9 (81m)
R2 v Kasper Oedum (Den) 5-15, 15-6, 15-4 (82m)
R3 v Wong Choong Hann (Mas) 15-6, 15-5 (60m)
QF v Kenneth Jonassen (Den) 15-10, 15-3 (60m)
Sf v Lee Chong Wei (Mas) 15-9, 10-15, 17-14 (97m)
Now, these long and bruising encounters surely had an adverse effect on his physical and it had been made abundantly clear in the Final! And this is what the IBF has identified as detrimental to the professional player's career and suggested the shorter 3x21 scoring instead. Injury will cut short his prospects, reduce his earnings and related opportunities. Worse, fans will not be able to see him in action for some time!
Lin Dan must have treasured the AE title for despite his obvious pain, he continued his fight. This is one aspect of Lin's fortitude that has not quite been revealed in the past and it must be counted as his most precious quality as a champion. Even his worthy opponent Lee Hyun Il must be surprised and could not take advantage of Lin's situation. Instead of capitalizing on Lin's bad luck, Lee went on to make a number of unforced errors to raise Lin's confidence level. But in so doing Lin might have done considerably harm to himself. I fear that he might have sustained a permanent injury and would not be able to recover in time for his other important tournaments, most notably the Thomas Cup and the WC.
The long-drawn Finals, interspersed with the prize-presentation ceremonies, were rather energy sapping even to a TV watcher like me. Live telecast started a 8.30 pm but by about 2.30 am Singapore time, my eyes could not open anymore and I had to forego the ongoing battle between the world's best WD pairs, compatriot Chinese Gao/Huang v Zhang/Yang, at first thinking that Gao/Huang would surely lose. I did not watch the outcome but as it turned out, they surprised by winning in 3-games.
Even taking my time as a guide, I had to spend 6 hours no less, to watch the proceedings. For someone new to the game, they would have lost patience and gave up much earlier. Even I found some parts of the matches boring. Imagine if they played the Finals in the evening, it will cause much inconvenience to those without transport.
So IBF's point that the 3x15 system is too long and could be boring is valid.
I hope things will turn out better with the proposed new 3x21 rally points scoring system.
01-23-2006, 06:35 AM #332Originally Posted by Loh
Re injuries to players -- nobody wants anyone to play with injuries, but if you want drama and human interest and toughness in a sport, that is inevitable. Ask anyone which game of Michael Jordan they remember the best, and the answer is inevitably "the flu game". There is something ineffable about humans taking on their own limitations and exceeding them that it is critical, absolutely critical, in how a sport is percieved. I believe that badminton, as constituted, can touch the limits of human endurance and abilities, and this should be a selling point, not an embarrassment. Hard as this may seem, I have to say, tough patooties, injuries are a part of sport.
Re match durations -- you compare a 5-event telecast of a badminton final to one-event tennis telecast? The obvious solution to your 6-hour dilemma would be to hold the finals of the different events on different days, and not to cut down the game time so that 5 events can be compressed into the time of a movie!
01-23-2006, 07:30 AM #333
Agree with kanive.
And I don't think shorter matches means less injuries, as players will emphasize their training on power and musculation, with more risks of injuries at training...
Think of it : in athletism, are there more injuries in 10km run or in sprint events?
The answer is that there are more injuries in sprint events.
About match durations, I also think that the matches must be better scheduled in big tournaments.
There shouldn't be two rounds on the same day for example.
01-23-2006, 09:48 AM #334
Most injuries are not caused by length of matches but by too short rest in between matches. The human body need rest to recover before it is ready for another tough match. The IBF know this, why do they try to shorten matches instead of schedule more rest in between games?
Consider this. In soccer, 2 matches in a week is consider tough and coaches and managers complaints of risk of injuries to their players. In badminton, seeded players played 4 to 5 games a week, non seeded players played even more games. Whose fool idea is this?
01-24-2006, 03:09 AM #335
Malaysian Shuttlers Told to Focus on New Format
The Star, 24 Jan 2006
Tuesday January 24, 2006
Dissapointed shuttlers told to look ahead
BY RAJES PAUL
It all ended in painful defeats for the veteran doubles pair of Choong Tan Fook-Lee Wan Wan Wah and national number one singles shuttler Lee Chong Wei at the All-England Championships in Birmingham.
They had made good runs before letting slip golden opportunities to achieve their best-ever results in the prestigious championships.
It was the second time after the 2004 tournament that they lost to the same pair at the same stage. With the defeat, Malaysia are still without the All-England's men's doubles title since the Sidek brothers, Razif and Jalani, won it in 1982.
Chong Wei, who is now ranked second in the world, came close to reaching the men's singles final for the first time but he squandered a 13-5 lead in the rubber game against eventual champion Lin Dan of China and lost 9-15, 15-10, 14-17 in the semi-finals on Saturday.
The All-England was the last tournament using the tradition 15-point best-of-three-game scoring format before the International Badminton Federation (IBF) introduce the experimental 21-point best-of-three games rally scoring format for all their tournaments from Feb 1.
The first tournament to use the format is the Thomas-Uber Cup qualifying rounds, which will be held in Jaipur, India, from Feb 13-19. The format will also be used in the Commonwealth Games, which will be held in Melbourne from March 15-26.
Chief coach Yap Kim Hock said that Tan Fook-Wan Wah and Chong Wei should put the agonising defeat at the All-England behind them and together with all the other players look ahead to the new challenges under the new scoring format.
The All-England was the last of three back-to-back international tournaments in Europe after the Swiss and German Open tournaments and Kim Hock felt that Malaysia achieved good results overall.
“Overall, it was a good start to the year,” said Kim Hock in a telephone interview from Birmingham yesterday.
“We won two titles at the Swiss Open. And thanks to a one-week training stint at Milton Keynes, the players performed well at the All-England.”
The Swiss Open did not see the participation of Chinese players and Chong Wei and the men's doubles pair of Chan Chong Ming-Koo Kien Keat emerged as the champions.
At the All-England, two back-up pairs – Mohd Fairuzizuan Mohd Tazari-Lin Woon Fui and Gan Teik Chai-Mohd Zakry Abdul Latif – were the surprise semi-finalists.
For 2003 All-England champion Mohd Hafiz Hashim, it was a disappointment in Birmingham. He was beaten by China's world junior champion Chen Jin in the first round. Chen Jin came into the All-England as the German Open champion.
“The seniors must learn from their All-England defeats while the back-up players must continue with their good performances. Now, the focus should be on adapting to the new scoring format,” said Kim Hock.
“There will be changes to our training programmes to adapt to the change in the scoring format. The pace of the game will be faster. The players must be psychologically stronger to excel under this format.”
While China looked set to rule after winning four of the five titles at the All-England, Kim Hock said that the new format would put everyone on an equal footing.
“For a start, it will be a more open game. We will have a better knowledge of the game after trying it out in the first few tournaments,” he said.
“For some players like Lee Tsuen Seng and Yeoh Kay Bin, this may be an opportunity for them to rise again.”
Tsuen Seng was among the top performers when the International Badminton Federation (IBF) experimented with the seven-point best-of-five-game format for year from May 2001.
01-25-2006, 05:25 PM #336
I thought the Trial was going UNTIL February ... not starting in February ... what the hell is going on here.
This is rediculous, anyone see the great comeback 3rd game of Emms and Robertson in the AE ..... the current system is excellent, in the last several tournaments alone - AE, Copenhagen, German etc....using 15x3 there have been numerous examples of drama proving the worth of the current and already widely accepted scoring system.
01-25-2006, 06:08 PM #337Originally Posted by wedgewenis
Did anyone see the Video Interview with Bach and Gunawan
Tony Gunawan said in an interview that Not Many People Like it ... further that 21x3 Ruins the beauty of the game... and that one of the big things with the sport is coming from behind ... he said now when you are behind comebacks arn't going to happen ... both Gunawan and Bach looked pretty dumbfounded as to why the IBF is using 21x3 ... he also mentioned he would rather have 7 point games (perhaps 9x7) instead ... Bach said he knew they were only doing it for TV sponsorships but had his doubts with that aswel. saying also that he hoped they'd return to the current system eventually.
02-16-2006, 01:07 PM #338
Gade blasts new scoring system
DAWN Internet Edition
Yahoo! Singapore Sports
Badminton: Gade blasts new scoring system
BIRMINGHAM,(England), Jan 17: Former world number one Peter Gade has launched a scathing attack on the new scoring system which is about to start on the world circuit.
The International Badminton Federation (IBF) recently decided to adopt point-per-rally 21-up scoring, which will be introduced soon after this week’s All-England Open championships here have finished.
The IBF believes this system will be easier to understand than the traditional hand-in hand-out 15-up scoring for all events except women’s singles (11-up), which has been the norm since organized badminton began more than a century ago.
But there appears to be plenty of dissent against 21-up scoring, and Gade, who will be trying to regain the All-England title this week, feels the same way.
“I don’t think the IBF will like the new system,” he asserted. “It is very clear to me that this is a political matter.
“Table tennis had this scoring for 50 years. They changed from this (to 11-up) with great success but those running badminton, they look at it, and say ‘we want your old system and we think it will do good’.
“I can’t see any reason for doing that. We had an opportunity to vote for a more intense and exciting game. It has been exciting only from about 10-all or 11-all and now, moving to 21, but it will become even worse.
“I think this is political, because Asia dismissed the five games to seven-up system and have regretted it, but won’t go back to it again. Five to seven is best for badminton and I really wish it would be part of the future.”
Gade is referring to is the political conflict within the IBF between Asia and its supporters and Europe and its supporters, which recently led to three different scoring systems being adopted within two years on the world circuit.
Although the five to seven experiment produced a faster, shorter, and more unpredictable version of the sport, it was not endorsed by the IBF’s annual meeting.
And when the IBF council adopted an unheard of combination of scoring - men’s singles and doubles to 15-up but any event involving a woman (women’s singles and doubles and mixed doubles) to be played to 11-up - a bitter controversy developed.
It provoked dissent from more than 30 countries, causing an extraordinary general meeting which forced the IBF to back down, and brought the compromise of a return to traditional scoring.
Gade believes the imposition of the latest scoring system is a political reaction to that; the players will discuss their reaction to it at their annual meeting this week.
“But I don’t think the players can do anything about it,” the Dane said. “When we expressed our opinion to the IBF before, nothing happened. I don’t think the players’ opinions will matter.
“And when so many Asian players are dominated by associations and their governments it is almost impossible.”
“We can send signals to the media. And every time I am asked I will react in the same way. But the IBF is in control and as long as it’s like this, it’s very hard for the players to change anything.
Meanwhile a complaint from Denmark about the IBF-made draw for the All-England championships has caused the men’s doubles to be redrawn.
“If this draw was made by computer then one would expect a review of the programme,” said Finn Traerup, the Danish performance director. “But I would think this has been made by hand.
“There are too many glitches which makes it critical to get the review because the IBF website lacks information and we don’t know how people earn their ranking points any more.”—AFP
Last edited by MikeJ; 02-16-2006 at 01:14 PM.
02-16-2006, 09:18 PM #339
Hidayat blasts the new scoring system
The Indian Express
Hidayat blasts the new scoring system
The Indonesian wants to build a consensus to try and change it for the better of the game
Posted online: Monday, February 13, 2006 at 0000 hours IST
JAIPUR, FEBRUARY 12: He’s been at it since 1999 when he was just 17. But now, yet again, the World and Olympic champion Taufik Hidayat of Indonesia will have to wait for another year to fulfill his dream of winning the All-England Championships. At 24, he has already made the finals twice and was hoping to go one better this year. Only, fate had other plans in store.
‘‘This is probably one All-England I don’t regret missing because I had to prepare for my marriage on February 4,’’ said the former World No. 1 on the sidelines of the Asian Zone preliminaries of the Thomas and Uber Cup qualifiers here.
The only player in history ever to win the Olympic gold and the World Championships, doing so in 2004 and 2005, respectively, Hidayat’s ranking has dropped to 10, but that doesn’t bother him one bit.
“I missed the Swiss and German Open due to a knee injury, apart from missing the All England championship. That has affected my rankings, but I am back,” he said. That’s bad news for his rivals, especially world number one China’s Lin Dan, whom he had thrashed 15-3, 15-7 to become the world champion.
This will be Hidayat’s first tournament according to the new rally-scoring system which awards points after every rally and the game is decided at 21. He hardly seemed happy about it. ‘‘I don’t like the new system at all and so far as I am aware, none of the top players like it either. It’s too fast. I am going to take it up with the other players during the Thomas and Uber Cup finals in Japan and see what can be done,’’ he said. Recently, World No 6 Dane Peter Gade Christiansen had blasted the new scoring system as well.
Incidentally, this is Hidayat’s first visit to India and he didn’t sound too impressed with the arrangements. ‘‘Apart from accommodation problems — the rooms aren’t quite to my liking because of the faulty cooling system - there is also the problem of birds flying inside the stadium apart from a disturbing draft,’’ he said, before formally ending the interview session.
02-16-2006, 09:34 PM #340
Hmm, interesting articles to get the perspective of both Taufik and Peter Gade. Thanks for sharing MikeJ
Well, i wasn't surprise to read Taufik's comment, as this is his first experience using the new system. But it should be interesting, winning or losing, if he indeed goes abt his plan to "take it up" with the other players later during the T & U Cup tourney. I wouldn't be surprise if IBF pull-back this new scoring system idea soon after the tourney. FWIW(for what it's worth), at least they've given it a try..
On another note, at the end, Taufik sounded like when he was at the recent World Championships where he complained abt draft/wind problem. Hehe, now it's accommodation as well as playing stadium problems...
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