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  1. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Agree about the convoluted scoring.

    The only thing I do like about the new rules is the serving, singles style. This makes it a bit easier to serve as the server has more leverage with the flick and deep serve.
    You mean the doubles serve back line? I think that line stays. Unless I've misunderstood by "back service line."

    From the article:

    For doubles matches, the rules are:

    - One service only

    - Back service line remains and the current rule applies.


    Anyone know for sure?

  2. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanive
    We've tried it several times, even before it was officially proposed. It stinks. Turns it into a percentage game, with no incentive to take risks or go the extra step. One of the biggest advantages of the 3x15 system is that it allows for stirring comebacks -- you can be down 0-14 and facing matchpoint, but you can still fight back and win. No longer. I mean, theoretically it is still possible, but in practice that facet has been completely eliminated. For all practical purposes, a lead of 5 by mid-game is crushing. Another thing -- it's been a mantra for decades, "you can't score points if you can't serve" -- that is a BIG part of what badminton is about, and the rally scoring kills it.

    Also, the games go by far too fast. You barely break a sweat and game is over. Admittedly, it is better than 5x7, but should never be considered a replacement for 3x15. This is really bad for slow starters. And keeping score in doubles is a nightmare.

    Why does IBF keep doing this kind of silly stuff? They kill careers by changing things so drastically. (Gopichand, for example.)

    Did I mention this stinks? THIS IS NOT HOW TO POPULARIZE THE GAME! (sorry for shouting, but it really stinks.)
    Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth... your exactly right.

    the IBF has thier collective head up thier ass.

  3. #122
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    For the latest players' comments on the new rally scoring system.

    http://www.intbadfed.org/Portal/desk...10&ItemID=1902

    Looks positive, so far.

  4. #123
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    The new scoring system has some pluses which will benefit the game. You can now win a point if you win a rally irrespective of whether you are serving or receving. This is an added dimension, a new opening and opportunity to win a point where there was none under the old system. More skills will be required. You will not have to play till you drop. With today's newer and more powerful racquets and strings, serious injuries will be drastically reduced. There will less of a Peter Gade or Ronald Susilo or Hafiz being side-lined with long term injuries. There will less of player burnout. If the rules are not changed the future game will be monopolised by players 22 years or younger, as newer racquets, strings, and an obsession with speed will take a heavy toll on players older than 22 years of age. The new rules may actually not benefit China with their emphasis on speed and super human fitness. Let us bring back some exquisite skills and strokes. The new system will bring forth more players like Taufik (I got it right this time) instead of top players throwing away some matches to save their best for matches that count (Taufik seems to be a master on this).
    Even the game of tennis, which is less punishing than badminton, is not immune to injury problems brought about by newer and more powerful racquets. I think tennis will look into this injury problem and make some rule changes.
    The game of badminton is evolving. Today's players and equipment are a far cry from those in the old days. But the rules, save the hit on the frame and the change in duece, have hardly changed.
    In this respect you have an IBF that is at least not protecting the old boys from the club but has the actual guts to evolve and perhaps reshape the game. If it doesn't take off there is always a fallback. Now what is wrong with that?

  5. #124
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    You are kidding when you say speed is all there is to it, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    In this respect you have an IBF that is at least not protecting the old boys from the club but has the actual guts to evolve and perhaps reshape the game. If it doesn't take off there is always a fallback. Now what is wrong with that?
    What is wrong with that is, they are fixing something that is not broken. They are wasting their effort when they should be looking for real solutions. They are ruining careers by changing the game. They are making it less fun for us. (Yes, I've tried it.)

  6. #125
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    There are not many sports that still have only the server winning a point. Only international squash still maintains this scoring system, although the squash game as played in North America is also changing the scoring system to the rally point system. Both tennis and table tennis use the rally point system and they seem to be doing well.
    After all the very idea of not winning a point when you have actually won a rally, just because your opponent is serving, doesn't make sense. A point reward should be given for a rally won. The reward of winning the right to serve, instead of the more immediate reward of a point, when you win a rally with the opponent serving, just doesn't make sense from a conceptually point of view. It is a delayed reward that may never materialize.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    There are not many sports that still have only the server winning a point. Only international squash still maintains this scoring system, although the squash game as played in North America is also changing the scoring system to the rally point system. Both tennis and table tennis use the rally point system and they seem to be doing well.
    After all the very idea of not winning a point when you have actually won a rally, just because your opponent is serving, doesn't make sense. A point reward should be given for a rally won. The reward of winning the right to serve, instead of the more immediate reward of a point, when you win a rally with the opponent serving, just doesn't make sense from a conceptually point of view. It is a delayed reward that may never materialize.

    I am sorry for appearing to be so blunt, but that is a vacuous argument. Since when is not getting a point on winning a rally such a problem? For whom?

    In tennis, you can win 3 rallies and still lose the point. You can win rally after rally after rally, and still lose 6-0. In baseball, you can get 9 hits in 9 innings and still score a grand total of zero runs. In basketball, you can score 1, 2, or 3 points in a single scoring shot! Isn't that confusing? Why don't they make it all 1 point per shot?

    I look around me, and I don't see a single sport which has "simple" scoring rules. What is the problem here, really? Who is pushing for this rally 21 anyway? And why? Why don't they say why?

    Is there a smiley to say "Bah, humbug"?

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanive
    I am sorry for appearing to be so blunt, but that is a vacuous argument. Since when is not getting a point on winning a rally such a problem? For whom?

    In tennis, you can win 3 rallies and still lose the point. You can win rally after rally after rally, and still lose 6-0. In baseball, you can get 9 hits in 9 innings and still score a grand total of zero runs. In basketball, you can score 1, 2, or 3 points in a single scoring shot! Isn't that confusing? Why don't they make it all 1 point per shot?

    I look around me, and I don't see a single sport which has "simple" scoring rules. What is the problem here, really? Who is pushing for this rally 21 anyway? And why? Why don't they say why?

    Is there a smiley to say "Bah, humbug"?
    I am not with you here. If in tennis you win every rally point, shouldn't it be a 6-0 victory in your favour instead of losing 0-6?
    For sports to evolve nothing should be sacrosanct. Sure, movers and shakers are in the minority, and it is lonely to be at the top of the pyramid. But just imagine what the world would be like if humankind is ruled by those at the bottom of the pyramid.
    At least what the IBF is trying to do is to have the cake and eat it. If the new system works all the good for badminton, although there may be players who will give up the game in disgust. If it doesn't work out, then the system can be further fine-tuned or even dropped.

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    I am not with you here. If in tennis you win every rally point, shouldn't it be a 6-0 victory in your favour instead of losing 0-6?
    I think kanive is saying that tennis player A can win 3 rallies each of the six sets, but lose each set 45-30 to player B. So the final reported score is 6-0 in favor of player B.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    I am not with you here. If in tennis you win every rally point, shouldn't it be a 6-0 victory in your favour instead of losing 0-6?
    I didn't say every rally -- I said 3 rallies. You have to win at least 4 rallies to register a game. Winning 3 takes you to deuce. You can go to deuce and lose the next two rallies in every game and lose 6-0.

    Please don't say "oh that's a game, not a point". That's just terminology. What matters is what goes up on the scoreboard.

  11. #130
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    Default Just played first games with new scoring.

    Just got done playing 5 games with new scoring! I am 35 years old and started playing when I was 10 years old. I like the new system, just like what the AVP did to Beach Volleyball! Rally scoring, no long drawn out, boring games anymore! I found that you must really focus on serve first and then play shots to middle of court, not forcing any shots. Missed shots give other team points! Playing doubles as we did tonight, some folks took longer to get with the program! You just have to keep track of score and be loud and verbal after every point. If IBF gets large TV contract to show badminton in ASIA , then they get more advertising money$$$$$$$$. Don't be stuck in the past, enjoy a new way of playing! Start all over again, think more and use your skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddieO
    Just got done playing 5 games with new scoring! I am 35 years old and started playing when I was 10 years old. I like the new system, just like what the AVP did to Beach Volleyball! Rally scoring, no long drawn out, boring games anymore! I found that you must really focus on serve first and then play shots to middle of court, not forcing any shots. Missed shots give other team points! Playing doubles as we did tonight, some folks took longer to get with the program! You just have to keep track of score and be loud and verbal after every point. If IBF gets large TV contract to show badminton in ASIA , then they get more advertising money$$$$$$$$. Don't be stuck in the past, enjoy a new way of playing! Start all over again, think more and use your skills.
    well, i have stated my opinion earlier on before, it is worth the experiment, not much to lose and a lot to gain. IBF can switch back the 21 point system fail its objective. I think WD would benefit the most from the 21 rally point system. No more long drawn out rallies with no point scored. Now, the ladies have to give ALL OUT ASAP, no more save energy for the final match. We might even start seeing ladies doing jumpsmashing, woohoooo
    Last edited by cooler; 12-15-2005 at 12:48 AM.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    In this respect you have an IBF that is at least not protecting the old boys from the club but has the actual guts to evolve and perhaps reshape the game. If it doesn't take off there is always a fallback. Now what is wrong with that?
    Making the game shorter, does of course make it less demanding for the body (= less injuries ?!?).. But if a short game is the "goal" (Which I think not!), Then they could just have stuck with the 7x5 scoring.. (or even go 7x3 :P for "really shorte, injury-safe games)...

    This is not "evolving" the sport. If New material make smashes faster etc.. It would more likely be shorter rallies than longer.. This is just making the game less demanding.. And I don't think less is more!!!

    /Twobeer

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    After all the very idea of not winning a point when you have actually won a rally, just because your opponent is serving, doesn't make sense.
    To me it makes perfect sense that you score only in your own serve (as it is a dissadvantage in Badminton to serve, which it isn't in the other racket sports I know). It's brillaint and so much smarter than Squash, tennis, table-tennis etc!!!

    /Twobeer

  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    If the new system works all the good for badminton, although there may be players who will give up the game in disgust. If it doesn't work out, then the system can be further fine-tuned or even dropped.
    What constitutes "success" for the scoring here??

    What exactly is the measurable critera that this scoring is more "succesfull" than the old?

    /Twobeer

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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer
    Making the game shorter, does of course make it less demanding for the body (= less injuries ?!?).. But if a short game is the "goal" (Which I think not!), Then they could just have stuck with the 7x5 scoring.. (or even go 7x3 :P for "really shorte, injury-safe games)...

    This is not "evolving" the sport. If New material make smashes faster etc.. It would more likely be shorter rallies than longer.. This is just making the game less demanding.. And I don't think less is more!!!

    /Twobeer
    i think there was a previous post for scoring changes where i suggested it should be rally scoring best of three to 25.. since this ensured a similar game length. do you think this would work?

    Coops

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    well, i have stated my opinion earlier on before, it is worth the experiment, not much to lose and a lot to gain. IBF can switch back the 21 point system fail its objective. I think WD would benefit the most from the 21 rally point system. No more long drawn out rallies with no point scored. Now, the ladies have to give ALL OUT ASAP, no more save energy for the final match. We might even start seeing ladies doing jumpsmashing, woohoooo
    I'm just afraid we will get stuck with a poorer rally-scoring format, if not much protest are heard from pro players. IBF can just claim it was a succes because games got shorter (anyone with half a brain can figure out the games will be shorter, but we may not agree that shorter games "advances" the game of badminton) as there are no solid benefits that can be proved/dissproved during a few tournaments.

    I would also like to point out that most Mens singel matches aren't that long, with todays scoring!

    I don't think womens double play will change dramatically from this scoring.. It's not like they don't try to win the rallies quick as of today?!?!

    What would lead IBF to conclude it was a failure??

    /Twobeer

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